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View Poll Results: Was it murder
Yes 299 58.86%
No 68 13.39%
Don't know/let's wait and see as more evidence is gathered 141 27.76%
Voters: 508. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 05-20-2020, 09:42 PM
 
13,389 posts, read 6,410,753 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TaxPhd View Post
When Greg called 911, was he looking for excuses to shoot Arbery?
When Greg called 911, I think it was mainly because he knew he had lost control of the situation and urgently needed backup.

But, not ruling out that he called 911 to make it look like what they were doing was all legit and on the up and up.

 
Old 05-20-2020, 09:46 PM
 
13,389 posts, read 6,410,753 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lvmensch View Post
An interesting view. Cite you source of your belief.

The issue in the trial will be the "citizen arrest". Who would testify about such a subject? The prosecution is clearly going to claim it was not a "citizen arrest". Who else would be expert witnesses on the subject?

Going to be interesting.
Couldnt it be any legal expert. Like a Law Professor. I suppose it could be a retired DA that doesnt have to worry about ticking his boss off.

I just dont see current DA's working for the state of GA testifying in a way that undermines the states case. Did you mean to say that you think currently working DA's will give that testimony?
 
Old 05-20-2020, 09:46 PM
 
Location: South Florida
924 posts, read 1,670,932 times
Reputation: 3311
Quote:
Originally Posted by lvmensch View Post
An interesting view. Cite you source of your belief.

The issue in the trial will be the "citizen arrest". Who would testify about such a subject? The prosecution is clearly going to claim it was not a "citizen arrest". Who else would be expert witnesses on the subject?

Going to be interesting.
An interesting view? That the attorneys for one side cannot call the attorneys on the other side as witnesses? No, that's how it works. All of the district attorneys represent the State of Georgia. The state is their client. They cannot be compelled to testify against their client. Even if they did somehow end up on the stand, the prosecutor would block anything meaningful by asserting that it is work product.

Experts are not allowed to give their expert opinions on the guilt or innocence of the accused. That is an issue for the jury. That is, after all, why they're there.

I don't think the citizens arrest issue is that big a deal because then they still have to get past excessive force and you get into the self-defense issues.
 
Old 05-20-2020, 09:52 PM
 
13,389 posts, read 6,410,753 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MJJersey View Post
Drivel like this is why we have 576 pages on a straightforward self defense case, on video. No wonder the liberals accuse everyone else of “gaslighting”, they invented it. It’s no matter though. Like I’ve been saying, there will be an acquittal in under 2 hours once the jury sees that video of the “jogger” charging the defendant and beating him in the head.
This is anything but a straightforward self defense case. It has nothing to do with a liberal or conservative viewpoint.

A straight forward self defense case is a home invasion where you shoot the home invaders before they harm you.

Get real. The local police should have immediately turned this case over to independent investigating LEO and let the justice system decide if it was self defense.
 
Old 05-20-2020, 10:34 PM
 
5,450 posts, read 2,702,721 times
Reputation: 2538
Quote:
Originally Posted by TaxPhd View Post
In GA, murder requires malice aforethought. I don’t believe that any of the evidence known so far shows that required intent.
https://gbi.georgia.gov/press-releas...-investigation

They were both charged with murder and aggravated assault.



___________________________

2010 Georgia Code
TITLE 17 - CRIMINAL PROCEDURE
CHAPTER 4 - ARREST OF PERSONS
ARTICLE 4 - ARREST BY PRIVATE PERSONS
§ 17-4-60 - Grounds for arrest


A private person may arrest an offender if the offense is committed in his presence or within his immediate knowledge. If the offense is a felony and the offender is escaping or attempting to escape, a private person may arrest him upon reasonable and probable grounds of suspicion.
___________________________


Citizens arrest is not a privilege you gain over people you “know” have committed a crime. It’s a narrow law that allows a citizen to intervene against suspect they’ve personally witnessed commit a crime in their immediate vicinity, and only then in a limited capacity during a limited window of time. You have no inherent right to proactively detain anyone, even if you have good reason to believe they are a criminal.

So far we have seen no evidence the McMichaels' had immediate knowledge of a felony having occurred on the day of the shooting nor does the police report mention any

If the defense can't convince the jury they had probable cause to make a citizen's arrest and the charges are murder and aggravated assault not just murder. It means the charge of aggravated assault is being considered as applying to the McMichaels actions prior to the shooting. And if an accidental shooting were to occur during an aggravated assault Georgia law regards that as "felony murder" a death caused by the accused during commission of a felony of any type intentionally or unintentionally
 
Old 05-20-2020, 10:35 PM
 
10,567 posts, read 5,581,634 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blondy View Post
When Greg called 911, I think it was mainly because he knew he had lost control of the situation and urgently needed backup.

But, not ruling out that he called 911 to make it look like what they were doing was all legit and on the up and up.
So, you’re suggesting that this could actually be premeditated murder. . .
 
Old 05-20-2020, 10:36 PM
 
13,389 posts, read 6,410,753 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TaxPhd View Post


Now, let’s use the word correctly. . . Arbery could have gone in literally any other direction, and he wouldn’t have ended up attacking Travis. Instead he ran a fair distance at them, and attacked Travis.


In GA, murder requires malice aforethought. I don’t believe that any of the evidence known so far shows that required intent.
Your first point I've quoted is irrelevant. Arbery had no duty to retreat of go in any direction that would have allowed escape. GA is a stand your ground state so if you are under assault you can fight back. With a gun or with your hands. Whether or not you or anyone else deems Arbery's choice the smartest choice with regard to surviving is irrelevant to whether or not the McMichaels are guilty of murder.

The murder charge the McMichaels are facing does not require malice aforethought or inent. All that is required is the prosecution prove that they were in process of committing aggravated assault when they killed him. That turns it into a murder charge.

BTW that was explained to you last night that you were incorrect in saying this and using an outdated version of the law. Did you miss that?
 
Old 05-20-2020, 11:04 PM
 
Location: Canada
273 posts, read 171,641 times
Reputation: 221
Quote:
Originally Posted by TaxPhd View Post


Now, let’s use the word correctly. . . Arbery could have gone in literally any other direction, and he wouldn’t have ended up attacking Travis. Instead he ran a fair distance at them, and attacked Travis.
All right, I misused that word. My apologies.

Where exactly could he have ran though? They were aiming guns at him, any movement anywhere could be death, there isn't really a fair distance, if you see the video. Not enough for him to escape without them being able to grab or shoot him.

I made those points earlier to answer your question of why they would call 911. I was throwing out different plausible scenarios as you were asking, I wasn't accusing them of either of them, but I believe they killed him in cold blood, and is the reason they're in prison.

They started chasing this young man with absolutely nothing but suspicion, they never asked the homeowner what happened, or even tried to hear Ahmaud's alibi, they seemed to jump to conclusions, and follow through with those conclusions.

They weren't only chasing them like I said. They were cornering them, they were closing in, aiming guns toward him. There is no justifiable excuse they have provided to have taken his life, they are not law enforcement, they don't get to decide who's guilty or not.

The only reason Ahmaud attacked them was because they were closing in, remember that Ahmaud was the one running, he wasn't instigating or fighting.

I disagree overall , I believe that there is enough evidence to show that they had no legal right or proof to take this his life. That with the fact they were chasing him for several minutes, with no evidence, no nothing, just suspicion because someone is jogging.

Last edited by scarbroo; 05-20-2020 at 11:13 PM..
 
Old 05-20-2020, 11:09 PM
 
13,389 posts, read 6,410,753 times
Reputation: 10022
Quote:
Originally Posted by TaxPhd View Post
So, you’re suggesting that this could actually be premeditated murder. . .
Nope, just suggesting that Pops may have had a belated feeling that what he was doing was going to go way south and covering all his bases and maybe calling in the calvary at the same time.

Does any of that add up to premeditiated murder. I have no idea.
 
Old 05-20-2020, 11:28 PM
 
Location: Tri STATE!!!
8,518 posts, read 3,736,256 times
Reputation: 6349
Anyone walking, running or skipping down my block is not going to be chased by me or my neighbors with guns, pickups and video. Just saying. I see sketchy people all the time. You know what I do? Nothing. Keep encouraging these folks to play "Punisher" and it is NOT going to end well for THEM one of these days.
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