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View Poll Results: Was it murder
Yes 299 58.86%
No 68 13.39%
Don't know/let's wait and see as more evidence is gathered 141 27.76%
Voters: 508. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 05-23-2020, 08:53 PM
 
Location: SE Asia
16,236 posts, read 5,856,006 times
Reputation: 9117

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Quote:
Originally Posted by TaxPhd View Post
If following/chasing Arbery constitutes an assault, it seems pretty clear that the assault stopped when the McMichaels were stopped on the road. At that point, Arbery became the aggressor when he ran at and attacked Travis.
LOL obviously not according to the GBI....Someone jumps out of a vehicle after chasing me, yelling at me, and has weapons drawn? OH, I am definitely feeling like my life is in jeopardy.

I think about those road rage shootings. Started simple enough. Then it turns into a chase. Then someone gets out with a gun. Pretty clear the aggression didn't stop when they got out with guns drawn. Pretty sure that escalated the threat level.

 
Old 05-23-2020, 08:54 PM
 
28,624 posts, read 18,677,825 times
Reputation: 30904
Quote:
Originally Posted by Loveshiscountry View Post
So you don't think it makes sense to protect yourself when you are in the process of detaining someone? hahahaha Absolutely amateurish and juvenile to think otherwise.

If you have no right detaining someone, then they have the right to prevent that detention. That's a facet of "Stand your ground." It also means you can defend yourself against unlawful detention.
 
Old 05-23-2020, 09:00 PM
 
10,566 posts, read 5,581,634 times
Reputation: 10657
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralph_Kirk View Post
What he's trying to say is that if two men openly carrying weapons block your path and attempt to prevent your freedom of movement, they can claim self defense if you put up a fight and start winning.


That's his argument.


But interestingly, if you go to the gun forums where this incident has been discussed, the people who carry firearms and fiercely defend the stand your ground will not agree that the right to self defense shifts to the person who is losing the fight.

Notice I said "where this incident has been discussed." That's because on the gun forums, there is very little debate before the topics goes stale. They all agree very quickly that the McMichels were the instigators and aggressors (they were the ones who made the first move to engage and had the last clear chance to walk away), and that in Arbery's position they'd have also fought back.
Post up the names of the gun forums that you’re referring to. I’ve already addressed how what you are claiming as generalized truth ISNT happening on AR15.com, one of the largest and most active gun forums on the net. The Arbery thread there is larger than here at CD, and they are a long way off from any sort of consensus.

So, post up the names of the forums you’re talking about, so we can verify your claim for ourselves.

Oh, one last thing, no one is claiming that the right to self defense shifts to whoever is losing the fight. You’re either making stuff up, or you simply haven’t understood what’s been posted.
 
Old 05-23-2020, 09:16 PM
 
10,566 posts, read 5,581,634 times
Reputation: 10657
Quote:
Originally Posted by jjrose View Post
That is the exact same thing that I have posted here numerous times.

You were the one arguing that it is not right.
I quoted and highlighted where you said that aggravated assault didn’t require one to assault with a weapon. Do I need to do it again?
 
Old 05-23-2020, 09:20 PM
 
10,566 posts, read 5,581,634 times
Reputation: 10657
Quote:
Originally Posted by jjrose View Post
That's not how it works.

The threat continued by them confronting him with their guns in hand. Remember all that is needed is an act that places another in reasonable apprehension of immediately receiving a violent injury. Being confronted with guns in hand would do that after being chased by those same people.
Any confrontation with weapons came about as a result of Arbery running up on Travis.

That’s exactly how it works.

If I’m on the street legally open carrying a firearm, you can’t run up to me and claim that I’m confronting you.
 
Old 05-23-2020, 09:22 PM
 
10,566 posts, read 5,581,634 times
Reputation: 10657
Quote:
Originally Posted by boneyard1962 View Post
LOL obviously not according to the GBI....Someone jumps out of a vehicle after chasing me, yelling at me, and has weapons drawn? OH, I am definitely feeling like my life is in jeopardy.

I think about those road rage shootings. Started simple enough. Then it turns into a chase. Then someone gets out with a gun. Pretty clear the aggression didn't stop when they got out with guns drawn. Pretty sure that escalated the threat level.
The GBI had probable cause for an arrest. Do you have information related to anything else the GBI may have? Or are you just having fun overstating what is meant by a arrest?
 
Old 05-23-2020, 09:22 PM
 
Location: Tri STATE!!!
8,518 posts, read 3,736,256 times
Reputation: 6349
I'm still waiting for somebody to tell me what they would do if men chased you in a truck as you ran away.
 
Old 05-23-2020, 09:25 PM
 
Location: SE Asia
16,236 posts, read 5,856,006 times
Reputation: 9117
Quote:
Originally Posted by TaxPhd View Post
Any confrontation with weapons came about as a result of Arbery running up on Travis.

That’s exactly how it works.

If I’m on the street legally open carrying a firearm, you can’t run up to me and claim that I’m confronting you.
???
They were already out of their truck with guns in hand. They didn't draw after Arbery showed up? They intentionally cut him off and took their stand in front of him.

If Arbery had been armed and shot them first, I would be arguing that it was a good shoot. 2 on 1. Both armed. They chased him for over 4 minutes. Denying him his freedom of movement. Yes they created a hostile situation. No maybe to it and the rest of the world sees it that way.
 
Old 05-23-2020, 09:32 PM
 
Location: Middle of nowhere
24,260 posts, read 14,165,148 times
Reputation: 9895
Quote:
Originally Posted by TaxPhd View Post
Any confrontation with weapons came about as a result of Arbery running up on Travis.

That’s exactly how it works.

If I’m on the street legally open carrying a firearm, you can’t run up to me and claim that I’m confronting you.
They started with the chase, and continued with the confrontation, and ended with shooting Arbery.
 
Old 05-23-2020, 09:36 PM
 
Location: Houston
26,979 posts, read 15,849,164 times
Reputation: 11259
Quote:
Originally Posted by boneyard1962 View Post
???
They were already out of their truck with guns in hand. They didn't draw after Arbery showed up? They intentionally cut him off and took their stand in front of him.

If Arbery had been armed and shot them first, I would be arguing that it was a good shoot. 2 on 1. Both armed. They chased him for over 4 minutes. Denying him his freedom of movement. Yes they created a hostile situation. No maybe to it and the rest of the world sees it that way.
The questions are what the motive was and , if as I suspect, it was to conduct a citizen's arrest, what led them to believe the deceased had broken a law.

I don't think it's murder in the first degree. But I'm just guessing at this point.
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