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Old 05-13-2020, 07:38 AM
 
Location: Boston
20,018 posts, read 8,913,884 times
Reputation: 18602

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Indentured Servant View Post
At some point in time.....you have to be CONTROLLED, temporarily, for your own good as an entity. It's about collective good vs individual good. As a society, you have to be flexible and oscillate between the two when NEEDED. The problem with the right is that it sees any attempt to promote collective well being....as a threat to their individual well being, permanently. You all are NUTS.....with your guns just looking for any excuse for a revolution of some sort. You just want to STAND OUT and drape the American flag like you are some kind of got dam patriot.
that's how slavery got started.
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Old 05-13-2020, 07:41 AM
 
19,387 posts, read 6,474,036 times
Reputation: 12310
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldhag1 View Post
The issue at this point is figuring out what constitutes the collective good and what constitutes the individual good. Right now it is in my individual good for society to stay as closed down as possible, for as long as possible. We own our home outright, there’s just the two of us, my husband gets a government pension, my job is strictly online, my husband can do his job from home thanks to video conferencing, we can afford to order whatever we want or need, we can afford to hire others to run errands, we are both old enough we are at-risk, we both have other underlying medical conditions that would make getting Covid-19 potentially deadly, and if we open I, in particular, will still need to remain in isolation. However, that is us - we are very much in the minority. There are people who aren’t sure how they are going to pay for food next week, people who haven’t been able to pay rent, children being abused, people completely cut off from other human contact, crucial medical care being forestalled, people losing their life savings, mental health care not being received, increased suicides, people abusing drugs or alcohol out of boredom or despair, jobs being lost, an increase in domestic violence calls and severity, and the long term effects of all this will last a very long time after I’ve left this Earth. So, you see, in my opinion it is in the common, collective good to re-open. This isn’t about me.
I am so glad to hear you make this distinction between the common good and the individual good. Where I live, outside of Washington DC, the majority of people are either government employees (with guaranteed income and now enjoying the luxury of working from home), former government employees on generous pensions, or professionals with work that lends itself to working from home (such as lawyers or corporate staff). They WANT our area to remain closed, since they are in secure positions.

But, unlike you, they are completely out of touch as to the damage being done to the majority of people elsewhere as a result of the continuing shutdown. Drug overdoses, suicides, life savings nearly wiped out, big jump in child abuse, etc., all of which will continue to get worse as this drags out indefinitely.

In my arguments with leftists who want to keep us shuttered (they’ve recently won another battle, and we are now closed until May 29....which is the second time they’ve been able to postpone the opening), they accuse those of us on the side of opening, in phases, as caring more about money than lives. That accusation comes from a place of arrogance and sanctimony, and they fail to recognize that there is also a cost in lives that comes about from a continuing lockdown.
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Old 05-13-2020, 07:42 AM
 
13,806 posts, read 9,676,336 times
Reputation: 5243
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldhag1 View Post
The issue at this point is figuring out what constitutes the collective good and what constitutes the individual good. Right now it is in my individual good for society to stay as closed down as possible, for as long as possible. We own our home outright, there’s just the two of us, my husband gets a government pension, my job is strictly online, my husband can do his job from home thanks to video conferencing, we can afford to order whatever we want or need, we communicate all the time with friends and relatives via video conferencing, we can afford to hire others to run errands, we are both old enough we are at-risk, we both have other underlying medical conditions that would make getting Covid-19 potentially deadly, and if the country opens I, in particular, will still need to remain in isolation. However, that is us - we are very much in the minority. There are people who aren’t sure how they are going to pay for food next week, people who haven’t been able to pay rent, children being abused, people completely cut off from other human contact, crucial medical care being forestalled, people losing their life savings, mental health care not being received, increased suicides, people abusing drugs or alcohol out of boredom or despair, jobs being lost, an increase in domestic violence calls and severity, and the long term effects of all this will last a very long time after I’ve left this Earth. So, you see, in my opinion it is in the common, collective good to re-open. This isn’t about me. I don’t think other people’s lives should continue to be destroyed to prevent me from getting sick.
You have my best wishes. However, it's not simply shutdown vs remain open. The problem is you have a hell of a lot of people who are refusing to even social distance or wear mask....FOR STUPID POLITICAL REASONS. People are gathering IN DEFIANCE of the collective request....as a demonstration that they will NOT BE CONTROLLED BY GOVERNMENT. These people are the people who make things WORSE FOR THE COLLECTIVE.

I certainly understand and respect that we need to get the economy going. However, the economy is not going to ever get back to full strength if half the people do not feel safe and confident to continue normal activities. How can you feel safe and confident with these BOZOS running around in defiance and trying to make a point? They can open back up businesses, but the businesses are going to fail if half the consumers don't feel confident and safe. A republican owned business is not going to survive unless LIBERAL CONSUMERS FEEL SAFE/CONFIDENT. Republicans following the guidelines would give others the confidence that everyone is on the same page and they don't have to worry about some Republican out in public standing next to you coughing and sneezing without a dam mask!!! Its just STUPID and counter productive. Okay...you are not scared or controlled....NOW JUST PUT THE DAM MASK ON AND GET AWAY FROM ME!

Controlling the direction of the economy has a lot to do with consumer confidence.....at least half the consumers, if not more, are LIBERAL. If you want the economy to get back on track....the right needs to get on board with the guidelines.

Last edited by Indentured Servant; 05-13-2020 at 07:51 AM..
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Old 05-13-2020, 08:07 AM
 
4,921 posts, read 7,673,898 times
Reputation: 5482
Nothing but pure HOGWASH from this OP. The OP refers to him/herself as "good," and asks for help from God. This OP could be a writer for SNL.

Democrats along with most of the working folks need work. The reason is the failure of Trump and his "swamp creatures" who put all the money in the hands of big corporations and their wealthy friends instead of working folks. Trump took office and immediately gave big corps and the wealthy over a trillion dollars in tax relief. (BTW, where did all that money go?) What did you get? Maybe a $1000 tax refund that evaporates in a few years while the big corps/wealthy keep their tax breaks. With Covid 19 Trump dumped another 500 billion dollars in the laps of big corps and the wealthy. This left the majority of small businesses, both dem and rep, to drown. Trump gave the working class families a whopping $1200 of which Mnuchin said would last the average family 4-6 weeks. What a joke!
This OP would like you to believe that working class democrats are partying during this Covid 19 crisis, but nothing could be further from the truth. The facts are that these hard working people, both democrats and republican, are lining up at the food banks, struggling to pay their mortgages and rents, and also consider that with most of them losing their jobs their medical insurance is also gone. This thread is more propaganda from the extreme Trump cultists. These radicals would have us believe that the issue is political when in fact it is a full assault on working people of all political parties.

It is time to shut Trump and his Trump cultists down. Trump lies, Americans die.
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Old 05-13-2020, 08:09 AM
 
5,312 posts, read 6,088,307 times
Reputation: 4110
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rachel976 View Post
Oye. It must be awful to live in a country where you think half of all voters are bad people, and all because they won’t vote for your candidate. The arrogance is unbelievable.
That’s exactly what the OP said but you ignored it or agree with him because he’s on your “team”
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Old 05-13-2020, 08:10 AM
 
8,920 posts, read 2,524,534 times
Reputation: 4680
There's no question that our friends on the left are desperate to hurt the economy and cause as much suffering to the people as possible in order to advance political narratives and try to win an election that they are currently unlikely to do well in.

We'll just see if they manage to keep hurting the people long enough, or if the people decide to blame them for it rather than reward them for it.
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Old 05-13-2020, 08:11 AM
 
Location: King County, WA
15,733 posts, read 6,443,209 times
Reputation: 13202
Must be an election year. Silly season is kicking into full gear.
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Old 05-13-2020, 08:11 AM
 
Location: Phoenix
30,099 posts, read 18,921,258 times
Reputation: 26011
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheGoodTheBadTheUgly View Post
Rush is absolutely correct. The communist democrats and the never Trump RInos will do everything in their power to save the swamp. And if the American people are collateral damage so be it!

It will be a war between good people like me versus evil power hungry liberal progressives. With the help of God hopefully good will triumph over evil!



https://www.realclearpolitics.com/vi...ump_loses.html
The greater the pain on both economic and health Democrats can manage to inflict on Americans, the more they like it and they think it helps them politically. SO yeah, living in a Blue state means our Governor will try to make things as painful as possible.
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Old 05-13-2020, 08:17 AM
 
Location: Free From The Oppressive State
30,223 posts, read 23,643,056 times
Reputation: 38578
Quote:
Originally Posted by AHenriques1147 View Post
This is such shortsighted nonsense. The ramblings of simpletons.

As if society functions if everyone stays at home.

As if we can have social programs without tax revenue. There is no social security without income tax. There are no pensions without stock markets. There are no jobs without commerce. There are no funds for unemployment if there's no revenue. And you could seize the wealth of all the billionaires in America, and do a another stimulus payment. Once. Then what?



Stay your ass AT HOME if you are scared. Stay your ass AT HOME if you are over 65. Stay AT HOME if you have a pre-existing condition.


All you are sitting at home, having SOME people deliver your goods to your door, keep the lights on, produce your foods, etc., so you can STAY AT HOME and cower in fear. You're expecting all your services while patting yourself on the back for sitting on the couch and telling others to stay inside with you and watch netflix. And think it's all just going to magically keep going as the government prints money to pay for it all.


A prolonged shut down can prove to be MORE DEADLY and have WORSE effects than the pandemic itself. Starvation. Supply chain problems. Mass loss of jobs and impoverishment. Kids education suffers. People with therapy needs don't get it. There are MANY who are pointing this out, but they aren't getting the time of day on news media because there is a vested interest in not paying attention to that.

Stay at home. Knit some booties for your cats or whatever sad millennials and boomer-spinsters in New York are doing to pass the time. Order your delivery food. But for f***ssake, save your self-righteous garbage for your like-minded cohorts.
My favorite part is when they tell the people who are delivering their groceries/alcohol/restaurant food for them (like me) that they are "selfish" for going outside every day.

Don't forget to tip your delivery driver, folks! We make it possible for you to stay home but still get food.
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Old 05-13-2020, 08:23 AM
 
5,312 posts, read 6,088,307 times
Reputation: 4110
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobbythegreat View Post
There's no question that our friends on the left are desperate to hurt the economy and cause as much suffering to the people as possible in order to advance political narratives and try to win an election that they are currently unlikely to do well in.

We'll just see if they manage to keep hurting the people long enough, or if the people decide to blame them for it rather than reward them for it.
How about think logically for a second instead of about this team bull****.

Why would states like say CA that have no shot to vote for Trump anyway destroy the economy on purpose to make sure Trump loses when he’s not winning that state no matter what?

And if you want to get into politicians doing things for their own benefit then why can’t we say that Trump wants people to get back to work not for their own good but because the economy is his only chance to get re-elected so he wants it back up at any price even if it means a lot more people dying.

You right wing extremists act like only democratic politicians do things for their own personal interests and the republican politicians actually care about the people lol

All these politicians are the same
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