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I be curious whether parts of the world with Universal Health Care particularly single payer health care funded by big daddy have more grounds to become a much larger nanny state or should i say mommy state, since they pay for your medical bill, as well as medical bills for everyone else you contact as well. It seems the countries that gone totalitarian Martial law overnight for COVID19 as mostly been such countries with single payer health care regardless of whether they were Democracies/Republics or not.
Is that the reason why people in the US are so afraid of a government single payer system as it gives the government more power to control the people as property of the state just as to a child to a parent who is responsible for his or her health and well being including taking him/her to the doctors and paying the bill?
I be curious what would had happened if Barack Obama or Hillary Clinton was President now, the federal government and 80% of the states in the same one party rule supermajority, Obama care was allowed to grow even bigger, would we had gone National Lockdown with Martial law controlling each state's borders, just like what happened in 2/3 of Europe and a good percentage of countries in the world?
Its interesting how the US compares with Canada in this regard as Canada and their provinces do run under single payer health care schemes. It appears British Columbia wasn't too dracon compared to much of the US though based on news I seen and what I heard from people living there.
Since you be curious - here's what would have happened:
There would have been a coherent, well-planned national response and 100,000 americans would not be dead.
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof
How has the free exercise of religion been prohibited by the federal government? No law has been established preventing the free exercise of religion. Most states haven't forced churches to suspend indoor services; many did it on their own because they are responsible members of our society who are smart enough to recognize a public health threat when they see one.
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or abridging the freedom of speech
How so? Did you want to yell "fire" in a crowded theater? What haven't you been allowed to say?
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of the press
Now you're concerned about the press? LMAO. Talk about hypocritical.
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or the right of the people peaceably to assemble
I think "peaceably" is the operative word here. Guns are not "peaceable". But I've seen lots of assembling. How is that being disallowed?
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and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.
You're forbidden to e-mail your Congressional representatives?
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They have restricted the free press from video the hospitals that are dead and the areas open to view from the public.
Hospitals are private corporations. And the press isn't all that free. Again, the Constitution is all about government's relationship with its citizens. And even at that, the press had to fight for the Freedom of Information Act and other assurances in order to do its job.
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They have forbidden our right to travel, exercise commerce and associate freely.
I've been free to travel all along; there just aren't that many places to go. What's your excuse? I can associate freely with whomever I want; I'm just smart enough to know that could be dangerous right now, both for myself and for whom I'm associating with.
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They have forbidden our right to choose for ourselves.
That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard.
So, the next time you see a sign on the highway that says "Detour", are you going to take the sign's advice, or are you going to shout "Muh rights! 'Murica!" and go through the barricade and over the embankment where the bridge is out?
Man, all these sissies whining about haircuts and gambling and going to the beach would never have made it through World War II.
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Originally Posted by YourWakeUpCall
Again. Neither you, nor any other individual, gets to interpret the Constitution. That's what the Judicial system is for. We've been through this repeatedly. The notion that the Constitution protects your right to do whatever you want is naive and preposterous. Rights are a balance of the best interests of the public at large and your freedoms as an individual. Absolute rights are anarchy. On the other end of the spectrum is tyranny. The US, for the most part, has found a tolerable middle ground. You may not think so, but most of us do. As such, you're just going to have to get over it.
I can't rep you again just yet, so I'm quoting your entire post for emphasis.
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Originally Posted by BentBow
The ruling was that Government has no obligation to protect you. It is up to you to protect yourself.
The Constitution gives that power to the states. Next time, don't just stop at the Ninth Amendment. Go on to the Tenth.
How has the free exercise of religion been prohibited by the federal government? No law has been established preventing the free exercise of religion. Most states haven't forced churches to suspend indoor services; many did it on their own because they are responsible members of our society who are smart enough to recognize a public health threat when they see one.
Those that did, violated the US Constitution. It happened all over and in every state.
How so? Did you want to yell "fire" in a crowded theater? What haven't you been allowed to say?
It was not underlined
Now you're concerned about the press? LMAO. Talk about hypocritical.
The Free Press( Branzburg v. Hayes - 1972) is not the 6 activist corporations calling themselves the news. The public is the press and they have been jailed for it unlawfully.
I think "peaceably" is the operative word here. Guns are not "peaceable". But I've seen lots of assembling. How is that being disallowed?
I was talking church assemblies or food establishments, anywhere people gather. Where does it say 2 rights cannot be exercised together, if a person wants to be armed? Not your place to tell them they can't.
You're forbidden to e-mail your Congressional representatives?
That was not underlined.
Hospitals are private corporations. And the press isn't all that free. Again, the Constitution is all about government's relationship with its citizens. And even at that, the press had to fight for the Freedom of Information Act and other assurances in order to do its job.
You have every right to video or photograph anything one can see from a public sidewalk or public access, especially if a hospital is publicly funded in anyway. Not in the restricted areas, but anywhere the public is allowed to freely travel, so is a camera. You cannot trespass the eyes, or ones right.
I've been free to travel all along; there just aren't that many places to go. What's your excuse? I can associate freely with whomever I want; I'm just smart enough to know that could be dangerous right now, both for myself and for whom I'm associating with.
Speaking for yourself..... Does not mean others have not been jailed for being out in public. It is well documented it has happened.
That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard.
So, the next time you see a sign on the highway that says "Detour", are you going to take the sign's advice, or are you going to shout "Muh rights! 'Murica!" and go through the barricade and over the embankment where the bridge is out?
Man, all these sissies whining about haircuts and gambling and going to the beach would never have made it through World War II.
People are getting cuffed and stuffed for using the liberty they had just months ago. It is stupid that some have not witnessed it, with it all over the news and internet.
The Constitution gives that power to the states. Next time, don't just stop at the Ninth Amendment. Go on to the Tenth.
Nope, it was the State involved. Not the FBI. In Warren v. DC. it was deemed the individuals responsibility, outlined by the 2nd Amendment. You are responsible for Your Own Free State. You are sovereign, right? You are equal to all others, right?
Since you be curious - here's what would have happened:
There would have been a coherent, well-planned national response and 100,000 americans would not be dead.
Duh.
It would have been worse. They would have been too scared of being labeled racist and xenophobic to ban travel from China. Joe Biden talked about Trump's "record of hysteria, xenophobia and fear-mongering" after the travel restrictions were announced.
"The real pandemic threat is here. It’s the panic that will quarantine our Constitution."
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Originally Posted by trobesmom
We have not lost any freedoms. Can you still have your guns? Can you still have free speech, i.e., peaceful protests? Please tell me what freedoms you have lost during this pandemic, except maybe a little restriction of movement while government tries to ameliorate the effects of this pandemic so that it doesn't spread like wildfire throughout our citizenry.
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Originally Posted by YourWakeUpCall
So now we're going to take the word of one lawyer? I can easily find lawyers who disagree with this guy. Some State Supreme courts agree with him, but until SCOTUS rules on this, I don't care what one yahoo says and neither should you. From a historical perspective, the government has every right to restrict your "rights" in the interest of public safety. Do tell why this pandemic is any different? What's next? No traffic rules? It's OK to steal because I have the right to do whatever I want? These are extreme examples, but so is the notion that the government can't put measures in place to contain a public health crisis.
When the day comes that SCOTUS rules that government mandated CV19 pandemic measures are unconstitutional, I will happily abide by their decision even if I don't like it. Because that's how the system works.
... if you are told to stay in your homes, you will stay in your homes; penalty for non compliance of orders is jail and/or fines. If you are told to stand in-line and get your vaccine, you will, stand in-line for your vaccine; penalty for non compliance of orders is jail and/or fines. If you are told to wear a mask, you will wear a mask; penalty for non compliance of orders is jail and/or fines. If you are told to put a tracking app on your cell phone, so as the government can monitor your health, you will put a tracking app on your cell phone; penalty for non compliance of orders is jail and/or fines ... all these measure may seem like the government has only the best interest of their citizens at heart.
Reality dictates though all of these orders are just what they are --- measures that are taken by the government that go beyond the scope what the law provides and are an encroachment of the citizen's civil liberties --- where as, they are not allowed a choice in these matters. Citizens around the globe are waking up, only to realize whatever rights they thought they possessed as a human right --- they do not. They were granted privileges by their governments, nothing more.
Reasons --- the governments do not trust their citizens to not outs them out of power, so they will subdue them any way they can. Never in the history of all other diseases and/or virus that have plagued this planet has this reaction been done ... people may take it upon themselves to do what is necessary for their own well being, but the governments, extending new law, never before.
... if you are told to stay in your homes, you will stay in your homes; penalty for non compliance of orders is jail and/or fines. If you are told to stand in-line and get your vaccine, you will, stand in-line for your vaccine; penalty for non compliance of orders is jail and/or fines. If you are told to wear a mask, you will wear a mask; penalty for non compliance of orders is jail and/or fines. If you are told to put a tracking app on your cell phone, so as the government can monitor your health, you will put a tracking app on your cell phone; penalty for non compliance of orders is jail and/or fines ... all these measure may seem like the government has only the best interest of their citizens at heart.
Reality dictates though all of these orders are just what they are --- measures that are taken by the government that go beyond the scope what the law provides and are an encroachment of the citizen's civil liberties --- where as, they are not allowed a choice in these matters. Citizens around the globe are waking up, only to realize whatever rights they thought they possessed as a human right --- they do not. They were granted privileges by their governments, nothing more.
Reasons --- the governments do not trust their citizens to not outs them out of power, so they will subdue them any way they can. Never in the history of all other diseases and/or virus that have plagued this planet has this reaction been done ... people may take it upon themselves to do what is necessary for their own well being, but the governments, extending new law, never before.
I agree 100% with this...but I have to ask, if the Govt was doing these things unconstitutionally...why are they now allowing many places to re open? Some have even blew off health dept concerns and went ahead and re opened...NO GOVT in the history of the world would take freedoms...but then give it back to the citizens! Once they have people obedient and compliant, why would they suddenly start allowing places to re open? Usually govt gets tougher and tougher, It doesnt make any sense.
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Originally Posted by Ellis Bell
... if you are told to stay in your homes, you will stay in your homes; penalty for non compliance of orders is jail and/or fines. If you are told to stand in-line and get your vaccine, you will, stand in-line for your vaccine; penalty for non compliance of orders is jail and/or fines. If you are told to wear a mask, you will wear a mask; penalty for non compliance of orders is jail and/or fines. If you are told to put a tracking app on your cell phone, so as the government can monitor your health, you will put a tracking app on your cell phone; penalty for non compliance of orders is jail and/or fines ... all these measure may seem like the government has only the best interest of their citizens at heart.
Reality dictates though all of these orders are just what they are --- measures that are taken by the government that go beyond the scope what the law provides and are an encroachment of the citizen's civil liberties --- where as, they are not allowed a choice in these matters. Citizens around the globe are waking up, only to realize whatever rights they thought they possessed as a human right --- they do not. They were granted privileges by their governments, nothing more.
Reasons --- the governments do not trust their citizens to not outs them out of power, so they will subdue them any way they can. Never in the history of all other diseases and/or virus that have plagued this planet has this reaction been done ... people may take it upon themselves to do what is necessary for their own well being, but the governments, extending new law, never before.
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Originally Posted by rstevens62
I agree 100% with this...but I have to ask, if the Govt was doing these things unconstitutionally...why are they now allowing many places to re open? Some have even blew off health dept concerns and went ahead and re opened...NO GOVT in the history of the world would take freedoms...but then give it back to the citizens! Once they have people obedient and compliant, why would they suddenly start allowing places to re open? Usually govt gets tougher and tougher, It doesnt make any sense.
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if the Govt was doing these things unconstitutionally...why are they now allowing many places to re open?
The officials of each State can order you back into your home at any given time, that has not changed. Funny people believe that it has ...
"“When the present crisis began, perhaps not enough was known about the virus to second-guess the worst-case projections motivating the lockdowns,” Blacklock wrote. “As more becomes known about the threat and about the less restrictive, more targeted ways to respond to it, continued burdens on constitutional liberties may not survive judicial scrutiny.”"
The first thing people around the world in developed free countries, that have certain liberties afforded to them by the Constitutional laws their country's governments provide for them, in those laws the governments are to abide by are not worth the paper they've been printed on ... as they say the proof is in the pudding; this world wide virus has served up a dish.
Once they have people obedient and compliant, why would they suddenly start allowing places to re open?
So as to maintain their country's sovereignty without relinquishing control of their citizenry.
One has to remember in the history of the u.s and its founding those who wrote the Constitution were rebels of the crown ... they knew tyranny when they saw it; they provided a guide for all those that followed, so as they may recognize it, too. Recognizing it and doing something about it though, are two totally different things. Governments may or may not, try to adhere to human rights, when conducting themselves in their country's business, however, they grant privileges of their people so that their country's business of the day, can be carried out. Believing it to be something more is well, quaint, at best. You are free to move about the country when the government tells you that you are, but not before.
I agree 100% with this...but I have to ask, if the Govt was doing these things unconstitutionally...why are they now allowing many places to re open? Some have even blew off health dept concerns and went ahead and re opened...NO GOVT in the history of the world would take freedoms...but then give it back to the citizens! Once they have people obedient and compliant, why would they suddenly start allowing places to re open? Usually govt gets tougher and tougher, It doesnt make any sense.
The only reason is two words "tax revenue" as governments notice their coffers are emptying out and they are going into deficit as citizens cannot pay their salaries anymore(which they would not tolerate), states are nearing bankruptcy and facing massive deficits growing everyday. Hense even the most totalitarian or police states in the world would eventually need to reopen otherwise they will cease to exist and become failed states. Though reopening doesn't mean things would go back to what its used to be. Its like what happened since 9/11. They wasn't able to keep airlines and planes grounded forever after 9/11 but going on a plane since 9/14 is surely nothing like going on a plane on 9/10 or earlier. Airports and airplanes virtually feel like flying police states since then and there has not been much going back to normal in the last 20 years, while small knives and scissors are once allowed again there had been much more intrusive restrictions to face at checkpoints over the years. This doesn't just affect airports but many aspects of everyday life had faced unprecedented restrictions out of security concerns in the last 20 years and it only seems to get worse not better over the years.
I am proud of a few parts of the world that decided there is a reason that a constitution exists and not to trample of on them such as Scandanavia and Japan being the best example. The US actually helped Japan craft their post war constitution and they highly cherish it.
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