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Many states and cities have pensions that are collapsing and have been insolvent for decades. Fairytale math was always going to fail these poorly run pensions.
Citizens of states/cities voted for impossible to succeed pensions.
Workers voted for Union leaders who promised impossible to succeed pensions.
Couple this with falling interest rates on bonds that pensions are usually legally required to buy and hold and this becomes a problem with current interest rates.
Many states and cities say they can't afford to raise taxes to save the pensions.
However, bailing out the poorly run pensions rewards those that promised BS and punishes pensions that were honest.
What should be done?
Let pensions collapse so voters learn their lesson?
Raise federal income taxes nationally to pay for poorly run pensions?
Print money risking inflation nationally to pay for poorly run pensions?
Bailout all pensions equally to reward those that were properly run?
Many states and cities have pensions that are collapsing and have been insolvent for decades. Fairytale math was always going to fail these poorly run pensions.
Citizens of states/cities voted for impossible to succeed pensions.
Workers voted for Union leaders who promised impossible to succeed pensions.
Couple this with falling interest rates on bonds that pensions are usually legally required to buy and hold and this becomes a problem with current interest rates.
Many states and cities say they can't afford to raise taxes to save the pensions.
However, bailing out the poorly run pensions rewards those that promised BS and punishes pensions that were honest.
What should be done?
Let pensions collapse so voters learn their lesson?
Raise federal income taxes nationally to pay for poorly run pensions?
Print money risking inflation nationally to pay for poorly run pensions?
Bailout all pensions equally to reward those that were properly run?
Many states and cities have pensions that are collapsing and have been insolvent for decades. Fairytale math was always going to fail these poorly run pensions.
If what you say is true then why have so few of them actually gone bankrupt?
Quote:
Originally Posted by michiganmoon
Citizens of states/cities voted for impossible to succeed pensions.
Workers voted for Union leaders who promised impossible to succeed pensions.
??? There are several states with pension systems that are over 90% funded. They prove it is possible to succeed. Really, only a handful of states are in serious trouble, like Illinois, New Jersey and Kentucky.
If a state is underfunded:
1. Cut back on pension benefits for new hires.
2. Increase moneys paid in, including increased deductions from employees.
3. Never, ever cut benefits of the retirees. A contract is a contract, and cutting benefits of the elderly who can't go back to work is immortal and unethical.
If what you say is true then why have so few of them actually gone bankrupt?
??? There are several states with pension systems that are over 90% funded. They prove it is possible to succeed. Really, only a handful of states are in serious trouble, like Illinois, New Jersey and Kentucky.
If a state is underfunded:
1. Cut back on pension benefits for new hires.
2. Increase moneys paid in, including increased deductions from employees.
3. Never, ever cut benefits of the retirees. A contract is a contract, and cutting benefits of the elderly who can't go back to work is immortal and unethical.
A contract never signed doesnt need to be honored. Did you sign one?
States can fix their own problems that they created... They choose not to... Not my problem... Still waiting for Illinois to send me a million dollar check to help me out but they didn't think that was a good idea... Ironic that they think I should be giving them money...
If what you say is true then why have so few of them actually gone bankrupt?
They can't because the state picks up the slack. This is why your state is in so much trouble. Simultaneously tax revenue is collapsing and the states obligation to the pensions is increasing. States like CA, NJ and Illinois are few examples that have extraordinarily high unfunded obligations. Think it's ND they actually have surplus, if they were pay out all the estimated benefits they promised today they would have money left. Not a problem there but those pensioners aren't getting the same thing someone in CA is getting.
Quote:
3. Never, ever cut benefits of the retirees. A contract is a contract, and cutting benefits of the elderly who can't go back to work is immortal and unethical.
I don't necessarily disagree with you Elliot but that doesn't jive with reality. This problem isn't going away and it's getting worse. A lot of the states in this position are already high tax states. Most have done little or nothing to help address this problem since 2008 when it was hot topic then. Now it's a big problem again.... Even the residents of sunny CA are going to have breaking point and say screw it I'm leaving.
If what you say is true then why have so few of them actually gone bankrupt?
??? There are several states with pension systems that are over 90% funded. They prove it is possible to succeed. Really, only a handful of states are in serious trouble, like Illinois, New Jersey and Kentucky.
If a state is underfunded:
1. Cut back on pension benefits for new hires.
2. Increase moneys paid in, including increased deductions from employees.
3. Never, ever cut benefits of the retirees. A contract is a contract, and cutting benefits of the elderly who can't go back to work is immortal and unethical.
I take immense satisfaction knowing you will receive less in retirement than expected.
1) The PBGC only covers private pensions, so there's no relief there.
2) The political division in question hires a forensic account to determine if the plan is a Ponzi-scheme, then argue the contract is void. Judges won't let that fly because of the "Public Policy" doctrine, so instead they'll either blue-pencil contract to make it viable, or order mediation to get both parties to come up with a viable plan.
3) Private Action. Would you as a tax-payer or resident within that political subdivision have a private right of action? Perhaps Qui Tam? I don't know. FOIA only covers the federal government. Some States do have "sunshine" laws, but they're not exactly FOIA. Not only that, but some States' "sunshine" laws do not extend to political subdivisions. Would you then be able to obtain a copy of the actual documents? I don't know. But, assuming you do have a private right of action, you could form a citizen-action group, raise money and hire a forensic accountant to do what the polipukes won't do.
Perhaps you could obtain the documents and pass them off to the Media and hope and pray for hard-hitting investigative journalism to expose it, which would then force government official to take action.
4) If it moves, tax it; if it doesn't, pick it up and tax it anyway; if you can't, then paint it and tax it anyway; tax the holy living hell out of everything.
5) Pass the buck. Issue bonds then saddle the next generation with the debt and tax the holy living hell out of them.
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