The Death of George Floyd (Iraq, Afghanistan, weapons, carry)
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"Smartened up and walked away!"
(set 20 days ago)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boneyard1962
Being pro accountability is not being anti-cop. Questioning the conflict of interest inherent in allowing the police to police themselves is not anti-cop. Demanding an actual in-depth investigation in all cop related shootings, by this I mean with the same intensity and scrutiny a civilian would endure, is not anti-cop.
I believe that I am supportive of the police in most situations, but not in allowing them to police themselves. There is a reason so many have committed egregious offenses and did it with an arrogance that demonstrated a complete lack of concern for consequences.
There are far too many deaths by cops. Yes the majority are absolutely good shoots. Then there are the Floyd type killings that make no sense. The 5 cops who choked out a man selling untaxed cigarettes. Choked him until he died. 5 cops hassling a man selling untaxed cigarettes.
We need to hold our police to a higher standard. They are not the judge jury and executioner and most of them absolutely get that.
WE all know of a cop who speeds everywhere he goes. Who takes pleasure in hassling people. Who enjoys the power off his badge far too much. His fellow cops don't like him, but they will back him, because he is a brother. That is a problem.
Thank you for your point of view and for being his mouthpiece.
Being pro accountability is not being anti-cop. Questioning the conflict of interest inherent in allowing the police to police themselves is not anti-cop. Demanding an actual in-depth investigation in all cop related shootings, by this I mean with the same intensity and scrutiny a civilian would endure, is not anti-cop.
I believe that I am supportive of the police in most situations, but not in allowing them to police themselves. There is a reason so many have committed egregious offenses and did it with an arrogance that demonstrated a complete lack of concern for consequences.
There are far too many deaths by cops. Yes the majority are absolutely good shoots. Then there are the Floyd type killings that make no sense. The 5 cops who choked out a man selling untaxed cigarettes. Choked him until he died. 5 cops hassling a man selling untaxed cigarettes.
We need to hold our police to a higher standard. They are not the judge jury and executioner and most of them absolutely get that.
WE all know of a cop who speeds everywhere he goes. Who takes pleasure in hassling people. Who enjoys the power off his badge far too much. His fellow cops don't like him, but they will back him, because he is a brother. That is a problem.
Being pro accountability is not being anti-cop. Questioning the conflict of interest inherent in allowing the police to police themselves is not anti-cop. Demanding an actual in-depth investigation in all cop related shootings, by this I mean with the same intensity and scrutiny a civilian would endure, is not anti-cop.
I believe that I am supportive of the police in most situations, but not in allowing them to police themselves. There is a reason so many have committed egregious offenses and did it with an arrogance that demonstrated a complete lack of concern for consequences.
There are far too many deaths by cops. Yes the majority are absolutely good shoots. Then there are the Floyd type killings that make no sense. The 5 cops who choked out a man selling untaxed cigarettes. Choked him until he died. 5 cops hassling a man selling untaxed cigarettes.
We need to hold our police to a higher standard. They are not the judge jury and executioner and most of them absolutely get that.
WE all know of a cop who speeds everywhere he goes. Who takes pleasure in hassling people. Who enjoys the power off his badge far too much. His fellow cops don't like him, but they will back him, because he is a brother. That is a problem.
Ask Wichita Chief of Police Gordon Ramsay whether accountability is anti-cop.
He's the best COP I know. Maybe the best cop I know. He sets the bar.
Here's what he had to say:
“I get a lump in my throat when I try to talk about it, but in that video I see a murder committed by those who are violating the very oath they swore to uphold.” Gordon Ramsay
The ripple effect from Floyd's death is staggering. It's like it pealed the scab off of a festering wound and the foul corruption of disease is boiling out. What truly amazes me is that people are willing to ignore the obvious brutality taking place even after Floyd's death. A man is going to lose his eye after being shot in the face by a rubber bullet. His only crime was walking to his car after curfew. He wasn't protesting, there was no protesting going on. There had been earlier in the day. So why the need to shoot the man in the face?
Yes there has been rioting and looting. I won't even try to justify that nonsense. No one else is either. WE have seen more shootings by the police that resulted in injury and death. Maybe, just maybe our police have grown to accustomed to using lethal force?
We need to stop the internal investigations. They are not working and likely never have done anything but find ways to mitigate everything but the most egregious violations. I truly believe that the vast majority of police related shootings are justified. I also believe that to many bad cops have enjoyed too many free passes for criminal behaviors that would get any civilian locked up.
Now is the time for reform. We can do better, we can be better than what we are right now. No one who is innocent should feel fear of the police.
Before someone tells me I don't understand black people. I lived 24 hours a days, 365 a year, ate my meals, and partied with black guys when I served in the Navy. They are as American as I am and deserve to be treated exactly the same way that I am by the police.
Before someone tells me I don't understand black people. I lived 24 hours a days, 365 a year, ate my meals, and partied with black guys when I served in the Navy. They are as American as I am and deserve to be treated exactly the same way that I am by the police.
Except that those were black men who had been through the filters of volunteering for the military and then getting through boot camp and a couple of schools. To some extent, your experience is with self-cherry-picked men.
Except that those were black men who had been through the filters of volunteering for the military and then getting through boot camp and a couple of schools. To some extent, your experience is with self-cherry-picked men.
Actually, the other way around in a sense. It's been known for a long time that one of the few avenues available for many black folks...to move up a notch...is by joining the military. This is also true for white folks (of certain classes) and others.
But perhaps that is a different subject in the end.
IMHO the present situation has almost zero to do with "George Floyd" and it is, in fact, laughable (to whatever extent chaos and death and racism can be comedic) that he is being held up as a martyr.
The situation in this country is a classic Tipping Point.
We (here) all know things have been bad...in a lot of American life...for many decades. We may disagree on the causes and solutions, but we know something(s) are wrong.
The ideal of "just work hard and you will get ahead in the USA" has been a joke for a long time. But black folks tried it...a number of times.
By the year 2005 Black families had a net worth of 11K each average, 10% of that of whites.
By the year 2010, after the Great Recession, Black families had a net worth of zero - an infinite number of times smaller than white families.
By the year 2018 Black families were back up to 15-18K each net worth. Still terrible, but clawed back from zero.
Now.....not only are they being hurt more by the pandemic, but they will be hit MUCH harder by the economic effects. It's safe to say they are back at zero or negative net worth or will be within a year or two.
Although not my favorite melody, the words to I shot the Sheriff have some very deep roots. I watched Bob Marley sing it live and it took on a whole different meaning. As a man and human being, you or I would have shot the sheriff also....which is the situation we find ourselves in now.
"Every time I plant a seed, he (the Sheriff) say "Kill it before it grow". He say "Kill it before it grow".
That is what has been done to our fellow Americans. I don't bear nor buy the individual responsibility but rather view it in a historical context. It's undeniable.
Now the question becomes what are we going to do about it. The "Mob" is not an intelligent force, which is a problem. They know things suck. But it takes policy and change to head in a better direction.
I can't say I am optimistic. Put another way, I am optimistic that many smaller areas (regions, cities, etc.) will change but American politics as a whole...less so.
It's a tough sell to the "Average White Person" or many others to talk reparations. Heck, the Right has spent decades rallying in the courts and in public opinion about "Affirmative Action" or "a hand up".
The honest way to look at this stuff is as an investment. But, heck, we can't even get health care done. We can't do the very basics of public health, stop warmongering, etc.
In that sense most of us are victims of the same damn system.
Except that those were black men who had been through the filters of volunteering for the military and then getting through boot camp and a couple of schools. To some extent, your experience is with self-cherry-picked men.
Except that the Military is a representation of America, a true melting pot. Yes bad guys get in, they tend to not last very long.
Those same men I served with also seem to feel singled out by the police.
My point was and is that blacks are treated differently than whites when it comes to police interaction. No not all are shot or beaten or humiliated. Some are simple profiled and pulled over for nothing. Some are simply treated with a mild disrespect that most whites won't have to tolerate.
Why must parents teach their black children, especially their sons, to be extra careful when dealing with the police? I myself have never had a cop make a racist joke at my expense. I have never not been called sir and treated respectfully. My son? Not so lucky, but then he is also black.
Actually, the other way around in a sense. It's been known for a long time that one of the few avenues available for many black folks...to move up a notch...is by joining the military. This is also true for white folks (of certain classes) and others.
But perhaps that is a different subject in the end.
IMHO the present situation has almost zero to do with "George Floyd" and it is, in fact, laughable (to whatever extent chaos and death and racism can be comedic) that he is being held up as a martyr.
The situation in this country is a classic Tipping Point.
We (here) all know things have been bad...in a lot of American life...for many decades. We may disagree on the causes and solutions, but we know something(s) are wrong.
The ideal of "just work hard and you will get ahead in the USA" has been a joke for a long time. But black folks tried it...a number of times.
By the year 2005 Black families had a net worth of 11K each average, 10% of that of whites.
By the year 2010, after the Great Recession, Black families had a net worth of zero - an infinite number of times smaller than white families.
By the year 2018 Black families were back up to 15-18K each net worth. Still terrible, but clawed back from zero.
Now.....not only are they being hurt more by the pandemic, but they will be hit MUCH harder by the economic effects. It's safe to say they are back at zero or negative net worth or will be within a year or two.
Although not my favorite melody, the words to I shot the Sheriff have some very deep roots. I watched Bob Marley sing it live and it took on a whole different meaning. As a man and human being, you or I would have shot the sheriff also....which is the situation we find ourselves in now.
"Every time I plant a seed, he (the Sheriff) say "Kill it before it grow". He say "Kill it before it grow".
That is what has been done to our fellow Americans. I don't bear nor buy the individual responsibility but rather view it in a historical context. It's undeniable.
Now the question becomes what are we going to do about it. The "Mob" is not an intelligent force, which is a problem. They know things suck. But it takes policy and change to head in a better direction.
I can't say I am optimistic. Put another way, I am optimistic that many smaller areas (regions, cities, etc.) will change but American politics as a whole...less so.
It's a tough sell to the "Average White Person" or many others to talk reparations. Heck, the Right has spent decades rallying in the courts and in public opinion about "Affirmative Action" or "a hand up".
The honest way to look at this stuff is as an investment. But, heck, we can't even get health care done. We can't do the very basics of public health, stop warmongering, etc.
In that sense most of us are victims of the same damn system.
^ this^.
This really does say it all. We hear it all the time. That the black community needs to stand up and hold their own accountable. Bravo Bravo, yes they should. Just like we need to hold our own police accountable. Those people we pay to enforce the law, not abuse it, not misuse it and certainly not be held to a lower standard than society holds our criminal element.
A civilian shoots an intruder in their own home, they can expect to be investigated, with a tenacity that rivals an enraged Pit Bull. No stone will be left unturned, someone needs to be convicted . A cop shoots somebody and an internal investigation works diligently to clear him of wrong doing. Now what is wrong with that picture?
A civilian has an altercation with someone and the someone dies from a choke hold. You know that civilian is going to jail. Only a miracle will save him. 5 cops do it to a civilian and the guy died due to personal health issues.
Why are we so content to hold our law enforcement to such low standards?
Investments. We need to do better with our education system. The size fits all isn't working. We need to reapply Germany's system.
Investments. We need to train our convicts so that they have marketable skills after prison. We need to allow them to have a chance at a normal life after prison.
I have had people say to me "Look at your son, why can't all black men be like him." They think they are complementing him. He has what he has and is who he is because I invested in him. I invested time to teach him trades. I knew he, like myself, wasn't destined for college. He had a full time father figure, a mother figure and he made the best of it.
Actually, the other way around in a sense. It's been known for a long time that one of the few avenues available for many black folks...to move up a notch...is by joining the military. This is also true for white folks (of certain classes) and others.
If you've been through any military accession, you see that most of the people who fail simply don't have the mental attitude to succeed. The military accession process is a weeding-out process...and a lot of people fail. Those who first chose to try (a very big step...most people won't even try), and then have succeeded to the end of training have self-selected for success.
Only two percent of Americans choose to go into the military. That is a self-selection process. They are not really "just like the next guy."
Quote:
IMHO the present situation has almost zero to do with "George Floyd" and it is, in fact, laughable (to whatever extent chaos and death and racism can be comedic) that he is being held up as a martyr.
I agree. Idolizing George Floyd as a person obscures the fact that this event is broader than him.
Quote:
The situation in this country is a classic Tipping Point.
We (here) all know things have been bad...in a lot of American life...for many decades. We may disagree on the causes and solutions, but we know something(s) are wrong.
The ideal of "just work hard and you will get ahead in the USA" has been a joke for a long time. But black folks tried it...a number of times.
By the year 2005 Black families had a net worth of 11K each average, 10% of that of whites.
By the year 2010, after the Great Recession, Black families had a net worth of zero - an infinite number of times smaller than white families.
By the year 2018 Black families were back up to 15-18K each net worth. Still terrible, but clawed back from zero.
Now.....not only are they being hurt more by the pandemic, but they will be hit MUCH harder by the economic effects. It's safe to say they are back at zero or negative net worth or will be within a year or two.
Although not my favorite melody, the words to I shot the Sheriff have some very deep roots. I watched Bob Marley sing it live and it took on a whole different meaning. As a man and human being, you or I would have shot the sheriff also....which is the situation we find ourselves in now.
"Every time I plant a seed, he (the Sheriff) say "Kill it before it grow". He say "Kill it before it grow".
That is what has been done to our fellow Americans. I don't bear nor buy the individual responsibility but rather view it in a historical context. It's undeniable.
Now the question becomes what are we going to do about it. The "Mob" is not an intelligent force, which is a problem. They know things suck. But it takes policy and change to head in a better direction.
I can't say I am optimistic. Put another way, I am optimistic that many smaller areas (regions, cities, etc.) will change but American politics as a whole...less so.
It's a tough sell to the "Average White Person" or many others to talk reparations. Heck, the Right has spent decades rallying in the courts and in public opinion about "Affirmative Action" or "a hand up".
The honest way to look at this stuff is as an investment. But, heck, we can't even get health care done. We can't do the very basics of public health, stop warmongering, etc.
In that sense most of us are victims of the same damn system.
I agree with that.
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Well said.
