Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Examples please of law abiding blacks (and anyone else) being murdered by police in America.
Do blacks ask that they not be murdered by other blacks? Is that too much to ask? Apparently it is because it keeps happening over and over and over again...
Maybe if their poverty rate was not 2 1/2 times the rate of whites, a gap that began and persisted past slavery, there would be less violence. Maybe if blacks were not conditioned to devalue black life, as a result of society SHOWING that black life had less value, maybe blacks would not call themselves the N word or be killing each other. I guarantee you that the vast majority of blacks who commit murder...also commonly refer to other blacks with the N word. Hmmmmm....wonder where they learned that?
Maybe if their poverty rate was not 2 1/2 times the rate of whites, a gap that began and persisted past slavery, there would be less violence. Maybe if blacks were not conditioned to devalue black life, as a result of society SHOWING that black life had less value, maybe blacks would not call themselves the N word or be killing each other. I guarantee you that the vast majority of blacks who commit murder...also commonly refer to other blacks with the N word. Hmmmmm....wonder where they learned that?
Maybe black poverty rate is higher because their rate of illiteracy is higher, their rate of dropping out of school is higher, their rate of causing disruptions in school is higher, their rate of shooting people at 2am on a school night is higher and their rate of committing violent felonies is higher.
What is expected of black people? Black people have spent over 3 centuries in America being oppressed at the hands of white society. It was never ALL white people oppressing blacks at anytime. However, it was clear that there has existed a system of white supremacy that placed blacks at the bottom and whites at the top. For over 300 years the truth has been that white people looked down upon blacks as inferior and has treated them as such.
Why would people expect that blacks should not be overly sensitive to racial issues given that history? There are millions of people alive who lived under Jim Crow segregation, who endured having to ride in the back of buses, who had to drink from segregated water fountains, who could not eat at restaurants attend certain colleges,etc etc. This is not ancient history and you can't legislate peoples hearts and thoughts. Racism did not end with laws! Just because laws changed does not mark the end to the error of bigoted thoughts. Why would it?
When you have no respect for a people...you are unfair about what you expect from those people. None of this is complicated or hard to understand. Actions create reactions. All Americans will have to live with the reactions to Americas past actions, today. America, however, does not get it. It says it does not understand why the past has reactions upon the present....like there exists a choice. It's not....Action could produce reactions. Its, Actions ALWAYS produce reactions. What many white Americans do not want to account for are the REACTIONS born FROM THEIR HISTORICAL ACTIONS!!!! They don't want to deal with the racial legacy their ancestors left them from their ancestors actions. Instead of blaming their ancestors, they take it out and blame black people of today because they are suffering from the accrued reactions to over 3 centuries of white racism. Yet, a white person has to ask "why are black people getting so upset when a white person harms a black". What planet are you from that you would not know the answer to that?
Can I ask you a couple questions? Are you a happy person living your life now? Are you married with a family? Are you a professional? Do you have a lot of friends? Are you friendly with your neighbors? Are you just a tortured soul that worries a lot? Do you have deep-seated feelings about oppression? Do you experience oppression in your life today? Are you an extreme empath?
I will be honest, I have a hard time getting past the fact that you frequently toss around 300 years like you've been around and experienced these things for 300 years! How old are you!?
Only the most callous of human beings would deny that you are correct, awful things happened to black people, mostly at the hands of white people. Nothing is ever going to change that history, nothing. There is nothing I could ever say or do that would make you feel any better about the past. So what do you need today so you can go about your life in a more peaceful way? Is there anything that could bring more joy into your life while still feeling the pains of the past? Is there a way to live in the here and now 90% of the time and maybe allow yourself 10% to reflect and come to terms with the terrible history?
You are also correct about legislating peoples hearts and thoughts. Racism didn't end with laws, just like drugs, drunk driving, littering, speeding, hell- even driving without a license, haven't ended with laws. That doesn't mean it won't. Maybe not as quickly as you would like or maybe not as slowly as some might prefer.
All people are free to be sensitive to any issue they feel is important in their lives. Jim Crow is still before my time but I at least have a knowledge and learned the history. No one would want you to forget the past, but is there any feeling of hope that some small advance has been made since then? It wouldn't be a betrayal of the past to at least take some comfort in the progress that's been made would it?
You say all Americans will have to live with the reactions to Americas past actions- no, I won't. I cannot do anything about the past. People at the time lived the best they could. It wasn't perfect, we can't change it. It doesn't mean you forget, it just means you can't look at it through today's magnifying glass and judge it from the standards we have today. My energy is better spent looking forward. What can we do today so the next generation will have it easier? People today are rioting, looting, killing. Maybe they are doing the best they can, maybe not. Someone may be judging them in 400 years and say the same thing you said "they don't want to deal with the racial legacy their ancestors left them from their ancestors actions ". Were they right, were they wrong? It won't change, no matter the opinion.
I cannot even fathom the "reactions born from their historical actions" paragraph. Maybe you like to sit down and trace back four hundred years and make a note of every wrong-doing or slight or event that happened but I won't. The people that lived during that time did what they did. We can't change it, we can't make up for it, there are no words that could ever make it less painful. It just has to live as a terrible time in history. I guess maybe be grateful you did not have to live through it? Can you imagine how painful that must have been? I can't. I don't even want to.
I think by now, white people get why black people are upset when a person in a position of authority kills a black person. But people think and act differently. Some people may think, let's handle the situation, as it is today and deal with it in the here and now, through today's lens. And obviously, others would rather look at it as it's happening but would like to reference the master list of grievances and add it into the mix. Neither way is right or wrong, it's just human nature. I cannot get upset with you for the grievance list because it's a part of your way of thinking. You cannot get upset with me for wanting to focus on the issue at hand, that's how my mind works.
I have been on city-data for a long time. I enjoy reading a lot of different view points. I have read a lot of your posts. I feel your frustration, I get it as best I can without having lived in your shoes.
I don't want anything from you. I am just asking a question of why people expect that 300 years of racial oppression SHOULD not result in blacks having negative reactions from that history. Actions produce reactions. The present is the child of the past, with all its DNA and some mutations. If you want to understand that IS, you have to understand what WAS. Too many whites find such reasoning OFFENSIVE...which is troubling since it is all TRUE. Obviously if you have trouble accepting what is right, that means you are emotionally invested in the WRONG.
Being half-Hispanic, I am a mixture of white, black and Native American Indian. So, yes, my ancestors were oppressed in the past. Heck, my European ancestors were oppressed when their country was occupied by another country and they were forced to learn the language of their occupiers. My Puerto Rican father once told me how he went looking for part-time work when he was in HS in the 40s. He would show up somewhere to apply for work and they would look at him and say "We don't hire Puerto Ricans". That didn't deter him, he just persevered until he found someone who would hire him. He saw action in WWII and later went to college using the GI bill. He ended up having a successful career with the government. He wasn't going to sit around and brood over every time he encountered bigotry and racism. By doing that, he set a good example for his kids. Thus, when I experienced it, I knew that I didn't have a problem but the person who used slurs against me was the one with the problem. I don't sit around and brood over it.
You can't change the past. However, you can move forward. From your posts, it seems that you have made a successful life for yourself. Don't you think your ancestors, if they could see that, would be very proud of you? After all, every parent and grandparent, if they are decent people, wants their child to do better than they did.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Annandale_Man
We have ALL been oppressed at some time in history. Time to get over it and move on.
^^^^This is spot on If I hadn't run out of rep, I would have repped you.
Instead of focusing on my personal life and other deflections....can someone simply answer the question? Is the black response to the history they have experienced normal or abnormal? Is it what you would expect from any race had they gone through the same in degree and kind....or are blacks somehow reacting abnormally than what would be expected at this point, given their collective history?
You can talk about liberal or conservative, you can ask me if I am happy or sad, you can ask me if I have any friends, if I am racist, if I have a chip on my shoulder.....but none of that has a dam thing to do with the answer to the question. My personal life is not germane to whether or not it is expected that the history that blacks experienced would produce and explain their current reactions and behavior.
Continue attacking me and my motives all you want.....your silence in regards to the question is your condemnation.
^^^^I don't find it to be normal. Most people don't brood over what their ancestors endured. Emotionally healthy people who know their family history acknowledge what their ancestors went through. As children, such stories don't sink in. It takes maturity to reflect on what their ancestors endured and appreciate that they are in a position to do better than their forebearers did.
Instead of focusing on my personal life and other deflections....can someone simply answer the question? Is the black response to the history they have experienced normal or abnormal? Is it what you would expect from any race had they gone through the same in degree and kind....or are blacks somehow reacting abnormally than what would be expected at this point, given their collective history?
You can talk about liberal or conservative, you can ask me if I am happy or sad, you can ask me if I have any friends, if I am racist, if I have a chip on my shoulder.....but none of that has a dam thing to do with the answer to the question. My personal life is not germane to whether or not it is expected that the history that blacks experienced would produce and explain their current reactions and behavior.
Continue attacking me and my motives all you want.....your silence in regards to the question is your condemnation.
No one knows! It's down to each individuals perception!
What will people say 400 years from now when they hear stories about the things happening right now? Is the response normal or abnormal?
No one knows! It's down to each individuals perception!
What will people say 400 years from now when they hear stories about the things happening right now? Is the response normal or abnormal?
Does anyone know if liberalism has effected blacks the last 70 years? I bet they would offer an opinion even if they did not know. However, ask the same question about racism.....and everyone will at best....pretend that it can never be known...and that its individual. You folks are simply avoiding the truth of yourselves. You are avoiding facing what you are really.
I will also say this, for something really to be done about police brutality....whites have to complain when whites get abused. America respects white people as tax payers and voters....when you complain things change. America does not respect black people as tax payers or voters and when we complain no one will really gives a dam unless something starts burning down.
I have no idea because frankly, I'm in a socio-economic group that doesn't get abused by the police.
Perhaps - I will postulate - that whites generally understand that there's a fractional % of any human group that will overstep their bounds while the very vast majority do not. Therefore, I will "predict" that 99% of white folks don't care about the 0.001% of white folks that encounter a cop with cause each year that wind up with a "bad cop" that causes more harm than good while answering a call to a crime, or arresting someone who appears to have committed a crime.
It's called a "tradeoff". If I know that I have a 99.9% chance of being protected by the cops, especially if I'm cooperative with them, then I guess I'm OK with the 0.01% who the cops will harrass.
So, what % of the black community gets unfairly harassed by the cops every year?
Instead of focusing on my personal life and other deflections....can someone simply answer the question? Is the black response to the history they have experienced normal or abnormal? Is it what you would expect from any race had they gone through the same in degree and kind....or are blacks somehow reacting abnormally than what would be expected at this point, given their collective history?
You can talk about liberal or conservative, you can ask me if I am happy or sad, you can ask me if I have any friends, if I am racist, if I have a chip on my shoulder.....but none of that has a dam thing to do with the answer to the question. My personal life is not germane to whether or not it is expected that the history that blacks experienced would produce and explain their current reactions and behavior.
Continue attacking me and my motives all you want.....your silence in regards to the question is your condemnation.
Not normal. Lots of groups of people were treated badly for centuries. Are Jews rioting? Gays? Asians? Native Americans? Irish?
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
If I hadn't run out of rep, I would have repped you.
