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If you hit the Browse at the top, that will take you to a page that lists the periodicals publish in the day and at the top of the page you will find a link --- Browse the Civil War Documents and I spent sometime there awhile back and I found the arguments held, they were fighting in the Confederacy, but Blacks were not being given proper recognition ... that is a lot of research so as to bypass other's accounts and to be able to know the unbiased truth of it all. Point being, there is no 'official' documentation.
"When the war started, my master sent me to work for the Confederate army. I worked most of the time for three years off and on, hauling cannons, driving mules, hauling ammunition and provisions." BILL SIMMS,Confederate & Union armies;enslaved in Missouri, interviewed in Kansas,ca. 1937 (my emphasis)
"One day Marster Bob comes to me and says, “Jim, how you like to jine de army?” You see, de war had started. I says to him “What does I have to do?” And he says, “Tend hosses and ride ’em.” I was young den and thought it would be lots of fun, so I says I’d go. So de first thing I knows, I’s inde army away off east from here, some whar dis side of St. Louis and in Tennessee and Arkansas and other places. I goes in de army ’stead of Dr. Carroll. After I gits in de army, it wasn’t so much fun, ’cause tendin’hosses and ridin’ wasn’t all I done. No, sar, I has to do shootin’ and git shooted at! One time we stops de train, takes Yankee money and lots of other things off dat train. Dat was way up de other side of Tennessee.You’s heard of de battle of Independence?6Dat’s whar we fights for three daysand nights. I’s not tendin’ hosses dat time. Dey gives me a rifle and sends me up front fightin’, when we wasn’ runnin’. We does a heap of runnin’ and dat suits dis ******. I could do dat better’n advance. When de order comes to ’treat, I’s all ready.I gits shot in de shoulder in dat fight and lots of our soldiers gits killed and we loses our supply." JAMES CAPE, Confederate army; enslaved in Texas, interviewed in Texas, ca. 1937 (my emphasis)
Quote:
The Confederate Army didn't allow Blacks in until the very end of the war.
They were then 'officially' recognized.
History is complicated, because people are complicated, many I'm sure didn't understand what the fighting was all about, and all they knew, was their homes (masters homes) were being invaded. Lincoln thought if he freed them, they would quit the fight, because the Union was losing the battles at the onset of the War, that became his strategy.
In keeping with the op --- slavery was a cultural acceptable practice (going back 4000 years) deemed neither immoral or illegal in its day. Genocide is neither.
Last edited by Ellis Bell; 06-21-2020 at 09:46 PM..
Reason: last sentence
If you hit the Browse at the top, that will take you to a page that lists the periodicals publish in the day and at the top of the page you will find a link --- Browse the Civil War Documents and I spent sometime there awhile back and I found the arguments held, they were fighting in the Confederacy, but Blacks were not being given proper recognition ... that is a lot of research so as to bypass other's accounts and to be able to know the unbiased truth of it all. Point being, there is no 'official' documentation.
"When the war started, my master sent me to work for the Confederate army. I worked most of the time for three years off and on, hauling cannons, driving mules, hauling ammunition and provisions." BILL SIMMS,Confederate & Union armies;enslaved in Missouri, interviewed in Kansas,ca. 1937 (my emphasis)
"One day Marster Bob comes to me and says, “Jim, how you like to jine de army?” You see, de war had started. I says to him “What does I have to do?” And he says, “Tend hosses and ride ’em.” I was young den and thought it would be lots of fun, so I says I’d go. So de first thing I knows, I’s inde army away off east from here, some whar dis side of St. Louis and in Tennessee and Arkansas and other places. I goes in de army ’stead of Dr. Carroll. After I gits in de army, it wasn’t so much fun, ’cause tendin’hosses and ridin’ wasn’t all I done. No, sar, I has to do shootin’ and git shooted at! One time we stops de train, takes Yankee money and lots of other things off dat train. Dat was way up de other side of Tennessee.You’s heard of de battle of Independence?6Dat’s whar we fights for three daysand nights. I’s not tendin’ hosses dat time. Dey gives me a rifle and sends me up front fightin’, when we wasn’ runnin’. We does a heap of runnin’ and dat suits dis ******. I could do dat better’n advance. When de order comes to ’treat, I’s all ready.I gits shot in de shoulder in dat fight and lots of our soldiers gits killed and we loses our supply." JAMES CAPE, Confederate army; enslaved in Texas, interviewed in Texas, ca. 1937 (my emphasis)
They were then 'officially' recognized.
History is complicated, because people are complicated, many I'm sure didn't understand what the fighting was all about, and all they knew, was their homes (masters homes) were being invaded. Lincoln thought if he freed them, they would quit the fight, because the Union was losing the battles at the onset of the War, that became his strategy.
In keeping with the op --- slavery was a cultural acceptable practice (going back 4000 years) deemed neither immoral or illegal in its day. Genocide is neither.
There's some interesting quotes in that link of slaves who ran away and joined the Union army or defected from serving in the Confederate Army returned to their master after the War and were rehired and treated like a brother. It doesn't seem like there was always much hostility and resentment between former slaves and slaveholders.
Quote:
In all de years since de war I cannot forget old massa. He was
good and kind. He never believed in slavery but his money was tied
up in slaves and he didn’t want to lose all he had.
I knows I will see him in heaven.
GUS BROWN, Confederate army;
enslaved in Virginia, interviewed in Alabama, 1937
It's a stupid apples and oranges comparison. Comparing the Nazis, the Soviets, Empirical Japan, Maoist etc would be a more direct comparison. The confederacy didn't even do anything generally accepted to be immoral or criminal in their time.
American slavery was definitely considered immoral at the time, there was this thing called the Civil War and these people called abolitionists.
But yes, American slavery doesn’t even come close to the Jewish or Asian holocaust. America imported 300K slaves. Nazi Germany KILLED 6 million Jews. Japanese Empire KILLED 1-3 million Non-Japanese East Asians. Soviet Union KILLED 3 million people.
Hell even Brazil had more slaves than America (4.9 million), on the global scale American slavery was a joke when it comes to tragedy.
Anyone who compares genocide and massacre to enslavement needs their head examined. If America did what Nazi Germany did, the black population would be 0.
American slavery was definitely considered immoral at the time, there was this thing called the Civil War and these people called abolitionists.
But yes, American slavery doesn’t even come close to the Jewish or Asian holocaust. America imported 300K slaves. Nazi Germany KILLED 1.7 million Jews. Japanese Empire KILLED 1-3 million Non-Japanese East Asians. Soviet Union KILLED 3 million people.
Hell even Brazil had more slaves than America (4.9 million), on the global scale American slavery was a joke when it comes to tragedy.
Anyone who compares genocide and massacre to enslavement needs their head examined.
Yes it was consider immoral by many at the time especially in the North, but not as universally as the decades that followed where it was universally agreed to be immoral around by 1927 or as it is today. I thought the Nazis killed up to 12 million and the Soviets even more?
Yes it was consider immoral by many at the time especially in the North, but not as universally as the decades that followed where it was universally agreed to be immoral around by 1927 or as it is today.
Well the bigger point was it’s not as bad as Nazi Germany. You have 300K American slaves versus 6 million corpses. For anyone to argue otherwise is silly.
Well the bigger point was it’s not as bad as Nazi Germany. You have 300K American slaves versus 6 million corpses. For anyone to argue otherwise is silly.
What I'm getting at is Nazis also had many slaves in work camps and factories etc and a lot of them died too. Slavery was already universally declared to be immoral years before the Nazis came in power. And let alone the murdering people. I thought it was 6 million Jewish killed in camps and 6 million various others.
What I'm getting at is Nazis also had many slaves in work camps and factories etc and a lot of them died too. Slavery was already universally declared to be immoral years before the Nazis came in power. And let alone the murdering people. I thought it was 6 million Jewish killed in camps and 6 million various others.
Yes.
6 million Jews and 6 million others- Gays, Romani, Jehovah's Witnesses, etc. The probable death toll in the camps and from the Einsatzgruppen.
Then there are the forced laborers/slaves who perished on the job.
The countless civilians- mostly in the USSR- killed by bombings, disease, starvation, and random massacres.
And finally millions of Allied and German soldiers killed in action.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mtl1
There's some interesting quotes in that link of slaves who ran away and joined the Union army or defected from serving in the Confederate Army returned to their master after the War and were rehired and treated like a brother. It doesn't seem like there was always much hostility and resentment between former slaves and slaveholders.
People the same then as they are now --- some are nice and some are AH. Keep reading the links on that page, you'll uncover the first hand accounts of the AH too. (WPA projects in interviewing people still alive that could remember)
At the Cornell Library I read a documented letter, some that took off for the North were met with hostility as well, so there is no straight black and white tale here of the past, because history is as complicated as its people and their reasons for doing things --- same as now.
Then put into play those same type of people are government representatives and the reasons for the succession, depending on the agenda as well as the prejudices of the historian ... people are angry because some one told them they should be and they believed 'em.
There are tens of thousands of individual denominations and faith groups in Christianity and one Bible --- because they can't agree on what it says. Agreement on history events and the reasons, is no different.
People the same then as they are now --- some are nice and some are AH. Keep reading the links on that page, you'll uncover the first hand accounts of the AH too. (WPA projects in interviewing people still alive that could remember)
At the Cornell Library I read a documented letter, some that took off for the North were met with hostility as well, so there is no straight black and white tale here of the past, because history is as complicated as its people and their reasons for doing things --- same as now.
Then put into play those same type of people are government representatives and the reasons for the succession, depending on the agenda as well as the prejudices of the historian ... people are angry because some one told them they should be and they believed 'em.
There are tens of thousands of individual denominations and faith groups in Christianity and one Bible --- because they can't agree on what it says. Agreement on history events and the reasons, is no different.
Yes I agree, putting aside slavery and racial egalitarianism I believe there are a higher percentage of people who are AH today and less "good" people than there were back then before the 1860s. So many today are just complete narcissists and sadists without an honest bone in them. We see example at this minute of what people of today will do when they can get away with it, they just senselessly loot and destroy.
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