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There are only about fifteen nation-states on this globe which are usually categorized as "fully-tested" democracies:
The usual criteria being one hundred years or more of the transfer of power exclusively by peaceful means; occupation by a foreign power isn't counted as a disqualification, but a drift into Fascism is
All of these nations share the qualities of an open economy and a Judeo-Christian heritage.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChiGeekGuest
Which of those had a Civil War where the sine qua non cause of the War was race-based slavery?
Slavery was the most prominent cause of the Civil War, but not the only cause.
The Civil War had its roots in a conflict which had been festering even before the Constitution was ratified. The notorious "3/5 compromise" was an adjustment to reality -- as were several other measures (Missouri Compromise, Kansas-Nebraska Act), but in the end differences were settled on the battlefield; and many Northern Abolitionists were as strident and inflammatory as their Southern counterparts. And the question of whether the American nation would be agrarian or urban/industrial fell along the same line.
And when the bloodshed ended, some people worked long and hard to bind the Nation's wounds, and some of the idiots cited above continued in their stridency; measures such as both Reconstruction and Jim Crow laws were temporary sops to the aforementioned idiots.
Last edited by 2nd trick op; 06-12-2021 at 02:35 PM..
Honestly, this thread is really amazing in terms of the historical facts and resources being dropped on both sides. By all means, keep the arguments going if we're going to get more of this information.
Are you sure you're not a New Yorker? just kidding I know you're not.
The Slaver States in the United States of America had their eye on expanding their "Golden Circle":
The Knights of the Golden Circle (KGC) was a secret society founded in 1854, the objective of which was to create a new country, known as the Golden Circle (Spanish: Círculo Dorado), where slavery would be legal. The country would have been centered in Havana and would have consisted of the Southern United States and a "golden circle" of territories in Mexico (which was to be divided into 25 new slave states), Central America, northern parts of South America, and Cuba, Haiti, Dominican Republic, most other islands in the Caribbean, about 2,400 miles (3,900 km) in diameter.[1][2]
Some had no problem with reopening the slave trade by any means necessary:
Farewell Speech of Hon.A.H. Stephens Delivered in Augusta, Georgia on Saturday, July 2, 1859, Wishes to reopen the slave trade with Africa and carve more slave states out of Latin America
I've never been to New York at all. I spent a part of my childhood on the West Coast though (Seattle area). I grew up in Georgia though.
The KGC must have wanted slavery so bad as to build a new country based on it. And I know about Alexander Hamilton Stephens. I've posted quotes of his Cornerstone Speech in other threads. I notice very few people ever have much to say in response, other than the typical "get over it" crap.
One thing to consider. Mexico abolished slavery before the USA did. Some Black slaves in Texas went south to Mexico for freedom. The KGC wanted to take parts of the world where slavery had already been abolished. Venezuela abolished slavery in 1854. Colombia/Panama abolished it in 1851. I would imagine the KGC wanted to get Haiti after its slave rebellion.
Well, tell that to those who still fly the Confederate flag. Tell that to those who still insist on having Confederate statues dot the southern landscape.
Ironic that you continually rail against being lumped together with underclass blacks, yet you are willing to pretend that a group of losers waving confederate flags somehow represents all white Americans.
That is an extraordinary claim, extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, where is yours?
Lincoln own words and the actions of the North in government to prevent a civil war and their actions when they decided to go to War to force the South back in the Union.
The war was fought to preserve the union above anything. It should have be call the war of independence than civil war because a civil war is 2 or more sides fighting to control the whole pie under 1 jurisdiction, War of independence is for 1 or more sides getting out of the government entirely and renouncing their citizenship and the central government preventing that.
Is not a claim or opinion. It's a fact if you study the war deeply and not the bs they teach in public schools.
if you think Lincoln send white men to fight and die in the South and leave their wives and kids and crops for many winters alone to free a minority of slaves in the South that they never met or didn't care then I have a bridge to sell you.
Would you volunteer today (It was a draft in 1863) and go fight in Africa for years and die to free some slaves you never met and has nothing to do with your state or life and leave your family and children behind to survive by themselves ? Well take the NO of today (that some would with our technology and money) and multiply by 100 in 1860 for NO.
Last edited by SanJuanStar; 06-12-2021 at 03:15 PM..
One thing to consider. Mexico abolished slavery before the USA did. Some Black slaves in Texas went south to Mexico for freedom. The KGC wanted to take parts of the world where slavery had already been abolished. Venezuela abolished slavery in 1854. Colombia/Panama abolished it in 1851. I would imagine the KGC wanted to get Haiti after its slave rebellion.
On paper not how they treat the minorities in their countries that is still going on. You should travel out of the comfort zone of your house and get out of your books and visit today the real Mexico and see in person how they treat their natives which is bad for our standards today but way worse 50 to 100 years ago.
Abolishing slavery on paper while keeping a system as bad or worse than slavery isn't progress or an excuse to shame the U.S. today.
Lincoln own words and the actions of the North in government to prevent a civil war and their actions when they decided to go to War to force the South back in the Union.
The war was fought to preserve the union above anything. It should have be call the war of independence than civil war because a civil war is 2 or more sides fighting to control the whole pie under 1 jurisdiction, War of independence is for 1 or more sides getting out of the government entirely and renouncing their citizenship and the central government preventing that.
Is not a claim or opinion. It's a fact if you study the war deeply and not the bs they teach in public schools.
if you think Lincoln send white men to fight and die in the South and leave their wives and kids and crops for many winters alone to free a minority of slaves in the South that they never met or didn't care then I have a bridge to sell you.
Would you volunteer today (It was a draft in 1863) and go fight in Africa for years and die to free some slaves you never met and has nothing to do with your state or life and leave your family and children behind to survive by themselves ? Well take the NO of today (that some would with our technology and money) and multiply by 100 in 1860 for NO.
I meant evidence to support your extraordinary claim, not same lame Lost Cause mythologies.
I've never been to New York at all. I spent a part of my childhood on the West Coast though (Seattle area). I grew up in Georgia though.
The KGC must have wanted slavery so bad as to build a new country based on it. And I know about Alexander Hamilton Stephens. I've posted quotes of his Cornerstone Speech in other threads. I notice very few people ever have much to say in response, other than the typical "get over it" crap.
One thing to consider. Mexico abolished slavery before the USA did. Some Black slaves in Texas went south to Mexico for freedom. The KGC wanted to take parts of the world where slavery had already been abolished. Venezuela abolished slavery in 1854. Colombia/Panama abolished it in 1851. I would imagine the KGC wanted to get Haiti after its slave rebellion.
The Confederate States of America was simply delusional. As are their supporters in the present day.
Quote:
Delusions are defined as fixed, false beliefs that conflict with reality. Despite contrary evidence, a person in a delusional state can’t let go of these convictions.1
I meant evidence to support your extraordinary claim, not same lame Lost Cause mythologies.
if you are going to have that crappy attitude then history is not for you. Is not a claim why the civil war was fought. Why you ask questions if you refuse to even let any information work in your brain?
I'm not white or from the south but I'm pretty good analyzer in history and why people go to war. This is not the topic about the civil war or I'm here to bring you "evidence"
I guess you want to sell the myth that the U.S. is the only country in history of mankind that went to a full war to end slavery for a minority as the primary reason when it has been practiced by the world for centuries. I guess Americans were the only people in history that were willing to kill their own countrymen and destroy their homes and economies to keep slavery. Americans are the most evil people in mankind.
Last edited by SanJuanStar; 06-12-2021 at 05:43 PM..
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just kidding I know you're not.
