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Old 06-13-2020, 10:53 AM
 
Location: Just over the horizon
18,453 posts, read 7,080,753 times
Reputation: 11699

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Quote:
Originally Posted by r small View Post
More than one cop to subdue an uncooperative suspect. Taser if necessary. Do you think a knee on the back of the neck for nine minutes is proper procedure? In the Floyd case three cops stood around while a fourth cop murdered a handcuffed suspect who was lying on the ground. Is that good police work?


Tasers can be problematic. You get one shot and if you miss, hit someone else or get the wires tangled up, you're screwed.

And just because Chauvin and the other cops around him abused the concept of the hold, (it's not normally applied with the knee) doesn't mean that it's not a useful tool when done properly.

Police all over the country have used it for decades and the VAST MAJORITY of the time, they DON'T kill people with it.

It's not the chokehold that's bad....it's the way Chauvin used it.
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Old 06-13-2020, 10:57 AM
 
45,676 posts, read 23,990,937 times
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He just can't express himself. I suspect what he was saying what a chokehold is a last ditch effort and should be used only in extreme cases - but whoever has thought a chokehold was 'innocent'.

My fave part of the interview was when Lincoln didn't do much -- free slaves -- 'we are all free' was Trump's response......lol.

We can debate whether or not he is racist but we can't debate his inability to clearly articulate a sensible thought.
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Old 06-13-2020, 11:01 AM
 
Location: Just over the horizon
18,453 posts, read 7,080,753 times
Reputation: 11699
Quote:
Originally Posted by r small View Post
You can edit, re-arrange, omit, delete, alter, embellish, turn upside down, inside out, etc., Trump's words and they will still be babbling nonsense. That is all he is capable of. As a speaker or writer of the English language he makes the bumbling George W. Bush seem like Lincoln.


Trump definitely speaks in a stream-of-consciousness fashion.
Most of his supporters don't really care, even though they wish he was more articulate.

Fact is, if you listen to what he's saying, in context, it really isn't all that difficult to know what he means.

Most of the time, people who can't understand the overall meaning behind his words are people like you who are bound and determined not to understand it anyways. Or to intentionally mischaracterize it for a "gotcha" moment.

In any event, Trump's manner of speaking is not very high on the list of things important to his supporters.......his policies are more important.
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Old 06-13-2020, 11:04 AM
 
Location: Just over the horizon
18,453 posts, read 7,080,753 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by r small View Post
Just two choices? Choking or shooting?


If the suspect is resisting arrest......

You want them to just let them go?.

"Sorry Ma'am, but we couldn't arrest the drunk driver who ran over your kid because he said he didn't do it and won't come peacefully".
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Old 06-13-2020, 12:06 PM
 
17,296 posts, read 12,225,030 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FatBob96 View Post
If the suspect is resisting arrest......

You want them to just let them go?.

"Sorry Ma'am, but we couldn't arrest the drunk driver who ran over your kid because he said he didn't do it and won't come peacefully".
The amount of force should be related to the nature of the crime occurring and threat being presented. Things like someone ending up dead over selling loose cigarettes and not offering any violent resistance or kids being kicked and thrown around for jaywalking are entirely inappropriate.
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Old 06-13-2020, 12:24 PM
 
Location: alexandria, VA
16,352 posts, read 8,087,610 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FatBob96 View Post
If the suspect is resisting arrest......

You want them to just let them go?.

"Sorry Ma'am, but we couldn't arrest the drunk driver who ran over your kid because he said he didn't do it and won't come peacefully".
For a non-violent offense? Yes let him go. Put out a warrant for the suspect then make the arrest when it can be done without the use of lethal force. I've seen dozens if not hundreds of cases through the years where the cops were too quick to go to lethal force.
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Old 06-13-2020, 12:27 PM
 
Location: alexandria, VA
16,352 posts, read 8,087,610 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by notnamed View Post
The amount of force should be related to the nature of the crime occurring and threat being presented. Things like someone ending up dead over selling loose cigarettes and not offering any violent resistance or kids being kicked and thrown around for jaywalking are entirely inappropriate.
Or a woman asleep in her own home.


Breonna Taylor was working as an EMT in Louisville when the coronavirus pandemic hit the country, helping to save lives while trying to protect her own.
On March 13, the 26-year-old aspiring nurse was killed in her apartment, shot at least eight times by Louisville police officers who officials have said were executing a drug warrant, according to a lawsuit filed by the family, accusing officers of wrongful death, excessive force and gross negligence
https://www.washingtonpost.com/natio...her-apartment/
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Old 06-13-2020, 01:20 PM
 
7,420 posts, read 2,706,617 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trobesmom View Post
Trump actually said this. I'm thinking the definition of chokehold has been lost on him. Innocent? Perfect?
Wow. What a nut.

https://thehill.com/homenews/adminis...hould-be-ended
I am no longer surprised by any of what the nut-in-chief says or tweets. That does not mean that my revulsion and disgust regarding this pitiful president stays the same. Along with most Americans, who are witness to the daily ineptness and corruption and moral ugliness of Donald Trump, my loathing mounts.

The most execrable, openly racist, vile person, to hold the office of POTUS, revels in violence. Donald Trump repeatedly has shown us who he is.

“When you guys put somebody in the car and you’re protecting their head, you know, the way you put their hand over?” (mimicking the motion of police shielding a suspect’s head to keep it from bumping against the squad car.) “Like, don’t hit their head and they’ve just killed somebody — don’t hit their head,”. “I said, you can take the hand away, okay?” July 28, 2017 Donald Trump speaking to an auditorium full of law enforcement officers.

At a roundtable of policing and racism, this week in Dallas, Texas, Trump described the use of tear gas and other force against civil rights protesters as a “beautiful scene.” Regarding the National Guard’s moves against the crowd, Trump excitedly said it was, “like a knife cutting butter.”

A few weeks ago The Donald's tweets were flagged for glorifying violence. He then doubled down and had the White House retweet them.

Then we have a week-end of tweets from the coward hiding in his bunker as he ramped up violence with ugly divisive words.

During the pandemic closings Trump tweeted multiple times to Virginians telling them their second amendment rights were under siege and they should "LIBERATE" themselves from their Democratic Governor.

In 2019 Trump 2019, Trump asked aides whether the U.S. could shoot migrants below the waist to slow them down.

At another photo-op with police officials in 2018 Trump, referring to suspects in custody, " "Please don't be too nice".
Often calling the press the "enemy of the people," Trump has taken aim at journalists several times from the campaign trail to the Oval Office.

On July 2, 2017, Trump shared a doctored video, from a 2007 WWE skit in which he is seen taking down WWE owner Vince McMahon. In the version Trump shared, McMahon's face is blocked by the CNN logo.
Combine this with the screaming vitriol that he spews from the stage toward journalists and media organizations and the false labeling of them as the USA's enemy in an effort to bully them and we can then understand why journalists need personal protection when they cover his events.
Trump praised Rep. Greg Gianforte, who body slammed a reporter back when he was running for his congressional seat in 2017.
"Any guy that can do a body slam, he is my type!" Trump said at a campaign rally as the audience wildly cheered.

On the day of the Iowa caucuses in 2016, Trump told audience members he would pay their legal fees if they engaged in violence against protesters. "If you see somebody getting ready to throw a tomato, knock the crap out of them, would you? Seriously, OK? Just knock the hell out of them....I promise you I will pay for the legal fees. I promise, I promise,"

"He's walking out with big high-fives, smiling, laughing," Trump said. "I'd like to punch him in the face, I'll tell you." Feb 2016 at another rally addressing the removal of a sign holding protester.

At another rally he shouted from the stage at a protester: "Get him out," "Try not to hurt him. If you do, I'll defend you in court. Don't worry about it."

"I could stand in the middle of 5th Avenue and shoot somebody and I wouldn't lose voters,"

Trump gets people to scream and hate and he incites violence. He gets people angry and riled up and makes them afraid and then points out who they are supposed to fear. He tells them who is responsible for their anger and personal unhappiness and their lot in life. Hate and violence follows. I am from Pittsburgh Pa. I know what Donald Trump's words and hate and violence cause.

The President's words matter. He's not an average person. He's the President, and with the presidency comes an obligation to set a moral standard for this country and to unite people. Donald Trump does the opposite. Donald Trump knows a chokehold is neither innocent or perfect, as well as he and his campaign fully understand his non-stop words and tweets are hardly innocent or perfect. Trump intentionally and cruelly desires violence against the United States citizens who he calls, "not my voters."

"When someone shows you who they are, believe them the first time."... Maya Angelou

IMO most people know who Trump is, despite his desperate continuation to showcase it. We know to whom he is selling himself. Just how many are still in the market for an autocratic, violent, nut remains to be seen.

Last edited by corpgypsy; 06-13-2020 at 02:18 PM..
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Old 06-13-2020, 02:01 PM
 
Location: Just over the horizon
18,453 posts, read 7,080,753 times
Reputation: 11699
Quote:
Originally Posted by notnamed View Post
The amount of force should be related to the nature of the crime occurring and threat being presented. Things like someone ending up dead over selling loose cigarettes and not offering any violent resistance or kids being kicked and thrown around for jaywalking are entirely inappropriate.


Oh, I agree.

But the real evil in your example is the arresting someone for selling loose cigarettes at all....

Not how they're arrested..

Just goes to show you that Government is willing to do anything, up to and including sending people to kill you over the enforcement of taxation.

And who's kicking or throwing kids around for jaywalking?

I must have missed that one.
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Old 06-13-2020, 02:03 PM
 
Location: Eureka CA
9,519 posts, read 14,734,844 times
Reputation: 15068
Well, we all know what an idiot he is.
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