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Yes, it is an undisputed fact that Jamaicans, Haitians and the real African Americans (the ones actually from Africa) have higher incomes and higher levels of educational achievement than Black Americans (see the US Commerce Department for details).
Those facts prove systemic racism does not exist, for if it did, those groups would be equally affected, yet they aren't.
Even if you could possibly prove systemic racism exists, the fact that those groups rise far above it diminishes the argument.
For those who are truly intellectuals, you are forced to ask yourself why those groups succeed while Black Americans do not and examine the issues critically.
There are few things we know about Jamaicans, Haitians and the real African Americans:
1) They are self-reliant. They do not look to government or "leaders" (snicker) for answers. Instead, they seek answers from within their own communities.
2) There are no leaders. Other than rant wildly at every photo-opportunity to create a 30-second sound-bite, Black leaders (an oxymoron) have done nothing but hinder the people they claim to represent.
3) Their cultures are markedly different.
While it isn't Politically Correct to criticize culture, when a culture destroys its own people, we must question whether that culture has any redeeming value(s).
For those who really want to discuss "race relations" that's where you need to start and refusing to recognize or admit the obvious isn't going to result in any fruitful discussions.
One huge flaw in your post. Everything you say here is accurate except the bold. Systematic racism absolutely exists. What their success actually proves is that it is not impenetrable and can be defeated on a population wide level, for a group that possesses the traits mentioned.
I otherwise share your opinion of black leaders and agree about the centrality of culture for success.
Last edited by TheArchitect; 06-13-2020 at 03:55 PM..
One huge flaw in your post. Everything you say here is accurate except the bold. Systematic racism absolutely exists. What their success actually proves is that it is not impenetrable and can be defeated on a population wide level, for a group that possesses the traits mentioned.
I otherwise share your opinion of black leaders and agree with about the centrality of culture for success.
Uhhhh....I hope everyone knows that there are actually successful African Americans . People do not have to argue why does Nigerians or people from the Caribbean achieve more if systematic racism really exists. All you have to ask is why do some African Americans become so successful if systematic racism exists. That is actually even a MUCH more relevant and apropos question given that their lineage goes back to American slavery too. emigrants are a poor comparison because they did not exist in the same environment.
Uhhhh....I hope everyone knows that there are actually successful African Americans . People do not have to argue why does Nigerians or people from the Caribbean achieve more if systematic racism really exists. All you have to ask is why do some African Americans become so successful if systematic racism exists. That is actually even a MUCH more relevant and apropos question given that their lineage goes back to American slavery too. emigrants are a poor comparison because they did not exist in the same environment.
It was a question fail from the start.
Yes this is a better comparison. And an even better comparison is between blacks who grow up poor from same neighborhood. The difference isn't random dumb luck, there are consistent, identifiable differences in values and parenting between the kids from the hood who go on to college & middle class lives and those who embrace garbage ghetto culture and fail. It isn't because one family received more govt assistance than their neighbor (and this isn't an argument against general usefulness of federal assistance) and isn't because one faced more racism, in fact the high achieving kid likely faces more racism from whites over his life.
They value education and work hard. When that occurs, "racism" no longer exists.
"racism" has become a perpetual rationalization for failure due to lack of education, lack of effort, and a poor culture.
Until American blacks start to value education, hard work, abandon the "gangsta" culture, and have tow parent families, they will be doomed.
What you have to realize, as white people, is that you were poor teachers. White people taught black people to be what they are today. Of course you are going to be a poor teacher when you believe that the people you are teaching are innately inferior.
The average black person in America has lineage that goes back further than the average of any group except Native Americans. Nearly everything about African Americans was MADE IN AMERICA. What is the difference then, from being MADE IN AFRICA vs being MADE IN AMERICA, for a black person? America replaced all the non genetic parts (well, actually they changed that too through raping slaves and making mulatto mixed race children....they they left fatherless and enslaved usually) and replaced then with experiences MADE BY WHITES. Instead of having African culture. That was replaced with what allowed us to learn (remember slaves were not allowed to learn to read or write). Instead of having African names, they were replaced with white names. Instead of having African religion, they were replaced with white religion. Instead of wearing African clothes, they were replaced with white clothing. Instead of having freedom, it was replaced by white made bondage. Instead of knowing and seeing black kings and queens, that was replaced with blacks only knowing and seeing bondage. Instead of black men being the head of their households, that was replaced with the white master being the head of the black household.
African Americans were MADE BY WHITE AMERICANS in America. The fact that blacks are not doing as well as whites in America is because that was the blue print of white america. Whites designed it that way. Whites believed blacks were inferior and set up America so that blacks would be inferior. This is all by DESIGN. The design of white racism...MADE IN AMERICA.
Nigerian Americans do not have the psychological trauma that has come from 400 years of oppression, thus, they are able to succeed at a higher capacity without that burden. Conversely, they have experienced colonization by Europeans, and that has had some impact regarding the state of their home country, but I believe Nigeria will eventually rise as a powerhouse. It's right there, economically speaking, with India, which also experienced colonization of the same ilk.
It plays out pretty much the same in South Africa. South Africa had its own version of Jim Crow, known as Apartheid, of which systematically enforced the idea that the native Black population was not only inferior to white Boers/Afrikaans but the Coloureds(mixed race) as well. So it's no coincidence that South Africa boosts probably the highest murder rate in all of Africa. Like America, South Africa also has a large immigrant population, primarily of Asian/Indian descent and Africans from other parts of the continent, including those hailing from Nigeria, East Africa. Seemingly, they are doing better per capita than the native Black South Africans, again, without the burden of oppression.
What's also crazy about South Africa's murder rate is that the blackest province, Limpopo, 96.7% black has a murder rate of 15.6 per 100,000. The most murderous provinces, Eastern and Western Capes both around 60 per 100,000 are 86% and 32% black respectively. So you have an interesting dynamic where the least black province is often the most murderous, while the most black province is the least murderous province in South Africa.
Yes this is a better comparison. And an even better comparison is between blacks who grow up poor from same neighborhood. The difference isn't random dumb luck, there are consistent, identifiable differences in values and parenting between the kids from the hood who go on to college & middle class lives and those who embrace garbage ghetto culture and fail. It isn't because one family received more govt assistance than their neighbor (and this isn't an argument against general usefulness of federal assistance) and isn't because one faced more racism, in fact the high achieving kid likely faces more racism from whites over his life.
The reason that some blacks overcame racism while others did not is no different, in the abstract, than why some people go to war and come back without injury while others do not make it back at all or they come back maimed or mentally disturbed, often ending up homeless and living on the streets. Why is that? Same war. some from the same units. Some make it and some don't. Do we dismiss that war is terrible and causes the death and injury to many who experienced it because some experienced and seemed to have prospered and lived full and normal lives? Would you tell someone who came back injured from war that he must be to blame for his injury....because others have come back fine?
Last edited by Indentured Servant; 06-13-2020 at 04:33 PM..
The reason that black Africa has not prospered and taken off, like many Asian countries, is born from the global practice of racism. European nations have dominated the world the last 500 years. Just look at the spread of their language. If you want to know who dominates the world, look to see how many speak the language of a nation vs the number of people who live in that nation. How many people live in England vs how many people in the world who can speak English. Language is the paper trail of empires.
That having been said, white people see black people as inferior. Hence, white nations see black nations as inferior. In order to become a developed nation from an undeveloped nation, you need DIRECT FOREIGN INVESTMENT and trade with Western nations....because they control most of the worlds wealth and resources via centuries of imperialism. If you want to gain....you have to gain through investment and trade from and with the West to transfer some of their wealth and opportunity BACK into your developing nation.
The west does not invest in Africa like it invests in Asia. White people see Asians differently than they see Africans. Whites believe in the ability of Asian people so they see a return on investment (ROI) by building plants and infrastructure in Asia. What do they do in Africa? They provide compound interest loans with preconditions. They burden Africa with so much debt that the countries can't afford to provide services to its people because so much of their revenue has to go to pay the IMF. The West drains Africa by giving loans on the precondition that they allow Western countries rights to rich resources in that country, which basically means domination and control of those resources.
So the issue of systematic racism is not just domestic. Systematic racism is global. The same question of why are African Americans struggling in America is the same question for the world. Why are ALL BLACK NATIONS STRUGGLING in the world? It's a white dominated world and has been for centuries. Black nations in the world are subject to the same global system of racism as blacks are in America. Blacks should not be confused by their attempt to pit one group of blacks against the other so that we lose site of the big picture of how blacks are mistreated and exploited on a GLOBAL basis.
There was a pop-up on my yelp app to "support Black businesses" and I clicked on it and most in my area were by Black immigrants from Africa rather than by Black Americans (Ethiopian restaurants, Somalian grocer, etc).
It's because there really is not this thing out there called Race.
Not sure what you mean by "Race" with a capital "R", but "race", a subdivision of "species", is indeed a thing.
Quote:
We are all One,...
Yes, one species, Homo Sapiens.
Quote:
made of the same stuff, with slight differences...
... in our genes. These differences, passed on through generations in geographically isolated groups, result in patterns which are the basis of race. Things...
Quote:
like color, culture, attitude, etc.
...all are determined or influenced to some extent by the genes we are born with.
Quote:
The Nigerian Immigrants are an example of folks who are...
...highly selected due to immigration rules, and therefore very unrepresentative of Nigerians in general.
Quote:
They wanted something...
... and they had the resources, intellectual and monetary, to pursue it.
I descend from a typical Nigerian. My dad grew up in a village and was running around naked until the age of 10 his words not mine. My Grandma on my dad's side although she speaks 4 languages, is illiterate, as in she cannot write or read. I've been to my dad's village, people are poor, you can't take a road to get there, you have to travel by boat. Albeit my dad's life significantly improved during his teenage years, as my family have a history of being middle class by Nigerian standards and he did go to a 4 year university in Nigeria, he struggled. Now my mom has always been part of the middle class, grew up in Ibadan and when her dad had a little wealth was arguably upper middle class, as her dad could afford to travel to London which of course the vast majority of Nigerians can't do.
Only 3 percent of Nigerians attend university. What percentage of the country, in your estimation, had the resources your parents' families had? If the answer is around 3 percent, then it hardly seems like "middle class" applies. The term probably has quite a different meaning in Nigeria than it does in the West.
Last edited by The Dark Enlightenment; 06-13-2020 at 06:00 PM..
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. People do not have to argue why does Nigerians or people from the Caribbean achieve more if systematic racism really exists. All you have to ask is why do some African Americans become so successful if systematic racism exists. That is actually even a MUCH more relevant and apropos question given that their lineage goes back to American slavery too. emigrants are a poor comparison because they did not exist in the same environment. 
