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Destroying history is about as anti-intellectual and ignorant as can be.
Only fools or terrorists attempt to demolish history and monuments.
The act of tearing down and destroying monuments is definitely anti-American and is similar to what Bolshevik communists, Nazis, and ISIS terrorists have done.
Who is destroying history? Do you think that destroying Amerindian burial grounds is destroying history? Do you think that tearing down older structures in general is destroying history? Are people setting out to destroy history books?
Do you think Germany screwed up when they took down Nazi statues. Do you have a problem with local jurisdictions making these decisions to take down these statues?
Please highlight how taking down these statues is destroying history.
Most of the monuments were put up by funds raised by the Daughters of the Confederacy who were at the forefront of the Lost Cause Movement. The Lost Cause Movement existed to present the confederacy in the best possible light as a historical entity. One of the reasons the monuments were put up around 1910is give or take is because a lot of the confederate veterans were starting to die.
However, the Daughters of the Confederacy spent a lot of time and money trying to brainwash the youth of that era concerning the Confederacy and the political positions that the Confederacy held regarding race and states rights etc. These young people grew up to join the Klan in the Klan's 1920s attempts to mainstream and then those people's kids were the people in the Klan and the White Citizen's Council of the 1950s.
The Daughter's of the Confederacy vetted school books for kids to only include textbooks that were sympathetic to the Lost Cause ideology.
Fact of the matter is that Republicans should loathe the Daughter's of the Confederacy. They were racist democrats just like you always tell us. The monuments they put up were memorials to other racist democrats who fought in the Civil War.
But instead you defend these monuments for all kinds of ridiculous reasons. If these people were the "evil democrats" that you claim they were...then you damn sure shouldn't be venerating their monuments of these equally evil confederate heroes.
And you can spare us the "cautionary tale" idea. 20 foot tall Robert E Lee or Jeff Davis statues in all their splendor are NOT the same as "Nazi Concentration Camps" in Europe or memorials to Atomic bomb victims in Japan.
I have a bit more sympathy for the generic "Confederate Dead" monuments for the poor sots who got killed in the war........but each community who has one should have a dialog about what to do about them.
No one has been able to explain why most of these statues and symbol didn’t occur until the 1900. We didn’t wait 50 years for other wars.
I was speaking generally, once the war started, the majorty of southerners were supportive and after the first few successes thought that they were going to win.
How incredibly honorable & courageous. How often do we see monuments to men who jumped on the bandwagon when it looked like a success, then had their rebel rearsides whupped and still refuse to see the error of their ways?
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If the South had adopted 100% wage labor instead of slavery, and focused on developing manufacturing like the North, the South would probably not have been so far behind the North in terms of infrastructure, economic output, etc.
If they hadn't been so very, very beholden to their rotten and inhumane ideals, they might have been better people? Yeah, no debate.
But the Southern leadership were completely enamored with the idea of the plantation owner being the gentleman and the factory owner being a mer grubby mercantilist. They saw themselves as sort of aristocracy (which makes sense, if you build your riches by owning people, you must believe you're better than them, of better blood and better race). All of which would have ended with their economic humiliation sooner or later.
It's a free country, and the people of those states can put up whatever memorials they wish to put up.
And city governments can take them down as well, right? Certainly that right is protected in a free country, yes? Not in the South.
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I don't like the fact that Seattle has a Lenin monument, but I'm not going to go vandalize it or tear it down just because I don't like it.
This entire public/private property just goes over the heads of some, doesn't it?
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"Racism" is a made up word that only appeared around the 1930s.
The concept still exists. The noble gentlemen of the South argued that they had a right, even an obligation, to treat other human beings as property. Due to their race. They were quite open about it.
And city governments can take them down as well, right? Certainly that right is protected in a free country, yes? Not in the South.
This entire public/private property just goes over the heads of some, doesn't it?
The concept still exists. The noble gentlemen of the South argued that they had a right, even an obligation, to treat other human beings as property. Due to their race. They were quite open about it.
I don't think this has anything to do with private/public property. This has nothing to do with city governments. Said persons just want those Confederate monuments to stay up. Said persons would be mad if the residents of a city decided "I want this statue down". Said individuals are Confederate sympathizers. I brought up that Black people were not identifying with Confederates back in 1865, they weren't identifying with them in the 1950s either. I asked someone to think about why that is. I notice no cogent answer was forthcoming. The majority of African-Americans are southerners.
In fact, by the time 1900 rolled around (when there was a boom in Confederate monuments), 9 out of 10 Blacks in the USA lived in the South. Why weren't Blacks trying to take up the values of the Confederacy? Why weren't Blacks trying to take on figures like Jefferson Davis and Robert E. Lee as part of their southern heritage? These are questions that need to be discussed. Many people just run away from the question.
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"Let this year be over..."
(set 20 days ago)
Location: Where my bills arrive
19,219 posts, read 17,085,392 times
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Originally Posted by Masterful_Man
It's a free country, and the people of those states can put up whatever memorials they wish to put up.
Whether you like it or not is irrelevant. I don't like the fact that Seattle has a Lenin monument, but I'm not going to go vandalize it or tear it down just because I don't like it.
Yes a war was fought to extend that privilege to everyone and now those same people and many more want those statues taken down "Whether you like it or not is irrelevant"....
As for Lenin "the statue was bought by an American who had found it lying in a scrapyard. He brought it home to Washington state, but died before he could carry out his plans for displaying the Soviet era memento." and "The monument is situated on private property, complicating efforts to remove it." but you are welcome to remove it , its sort of like those giant Confederate flags that we have to endure because they are "situated on private property"
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Originally Posted by Masterful_Man
"Racism" is a made up word that only appeared around the 1930s.
As stated before, Black folks and White folks were very different from the other so naturally a dynamic was created to separate the two into different societies. This still goes on today but it is voluntary.
It's not racism so much as it's two very different groups of people, different racial sub-groups with different cultures, different behavior, different body language, different athletics, different cognitive abilities, who cannot totally "jive together" because they're not the same, they're just too different genetically, behaviorally, cognitively, etc.
The only difference between the two races were cultural back ground and the fact that one had enslaved the other. To refer to these differences as the "dynamic that was created to separate the two into different societies" along with the rest of the garbage you posted is blatant racism! Different athletics & cognitive abilities I'll bet you support the eugenics movement too...
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Originally Posted by Masterful_Man
There are more blacks murdered by other blacks each year in the U.S. than ALL of the blacks that were ever lynched in all of American history. Think about that for a moment.
I'm sure with people like you if lynching hadn't been stopped when it was that figure would far exceed the current murder rates..
Last edited by VA Yankee; 06-16-2020 at 11:50 AM..
I don't think this has anything to do with private/public property.
The Lenin statue that the confederate supporters like to trot out is on private property.
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This has nothing to do with city governments.
City governments in several souther states can't take down confederate monuments due to state laws protecting them.
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Said persons just want those Confederate monuments to stay up. Said persons would be mad if the residents of a city decided "I want this statue down". Said individuals are Confederate sympathizers. I brought up that Black people were not identifying with Confederates back in 1865, they weren't identifying with them in the 1950s either. I asked someone to think about why that is. I notice no cogent answer was forthcoming. The majority of African-Americans are southerners.
That, on the other hand, is clearly true. And they tend to live in the cities (where the statues are), not in the deep-red hinterland where the "muh heritage!" crowd resides in larger numbers.
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Why weren't Blacks trying to take up the values of the Confederacy? Why weren't Blacks trying to take on figures like Jefferson Davis and Robert E. Lee as part of their southern heritage? These are questions that need to be discussed. Many people just run away from the question.
Seems pretty obvious.
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