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If for a moment we didn't have any racism to focus on. This is not to say or believe, we are color blind or ignorant about ethnic culture. However if ML King's dream came to fruition.... we judge people by their character, where we we all stand? individually, ethnically, and our identifiable group?
We would be much better off as a nation and excel globally. We aren't ahead in a number of areas and this is part of the reason.
I will be the first to admit that black people face a more difficult path to success than white people, but it is completely out of control. passed over for a promotion? I can see that happening, but a lot of that has to do with the good old boy network. nepotism, and things of that nature. but people use the color of their skin for everything. debt, accumulation of wealth, education, etc. I think you can blame being black on about 1% of your problems, but the other 99% is all on you. it's not the color of my skin that allows me to make sound financial choices.
My biggest issue is with some people pretending that no one else, only they, get trashed on, looked over, ignored, followed, dismissed, attacked, etc. It happens to a lot of people, regardless of what they look like. Hell, didn't we just see a little old lady get punched while walking down the sidewalk, minding her own business? Was that her "white privilege"?
The below are all general "you":
If you don't do well in school, don't take it seriously, guess what? You're not going to be very successful in life. It doesn't matter if you're "from the projects", if you do well in school, you have a plethora of scholarships available to you based on what you DID not what you look like. Sick and tired of the whining about how some people can't get to college because they were poor. Just shut up. Scholarships are out there for anyone and everyone who actually applies themselves while in school. Some of them give you a 100% free ride. No excuses.
If you get an attitude with a cop, it doesn't matter who you are, you're going to have a very bad day.
If you break the law, it doesn't matter who you are, you're going to have to answer for it.
If you violate a traffic law, but you treat the cop with respect, chances are, (unless it's a female cop), you can get off with a warning. (Female cops will always give you a citation, no matter who you are, so just accept that and f-en deal with it.)
I'm a white female. I've been followed in stores many times. I understand how annoying that is, how insulting that is. Instead of making a big scene, I simply went to the manager and told them that their little undercover store security sucked at his job. Yes, those were literally the words I used.
A lot of people are scared of anyone and everyone - no, you're not the only person who has experienced someone in their car locking their doors when they see you.
Being accused of being something that you're not, in public, at a business - no, you're not the only person who has experienced that.
Being looked down on because of some physical trait about you - skin color, gender, height? No, you're not the only person who has experienced that.
Didn't get the promotion even though you know damn well that you were more qualified than the ******* who did get it? You're not the only person who has experienced that. Some people kiss ass so hard, it's repulsive. I had one co-worker who had "Coffee Wednesdays" where she would bring in coffee for her and the boss. No one else. Her suck ass got the promotion. Nothing to do with skin color or gender or ability - everything to do with kissing the boss' big, fat derriere.
You got fired? Laid off? You're not the only person who has experienced that.
Didn't get the job because of who you are? You're not the only person who has experienced that. Many years ago, when I lived in Seattle, I applied for a job. Got an interview. Went in, and all the person interviewing me could talk about was that she was gay, that many people who came into the store were gay, was I gay? When I said no, she asked if I could "deal with gay people". Of course I could. This job did not require skill, but I didn't get it. You will never convince me it was not because I'm not gay, because that's ALL the interviewer talked about. It isn't just you.
Or how about those who are older? They get passed up a lot. Doesn't matter their race. So, again, you're not the only one who has experienced this.
Walking down the street, you see people cross the street away from you. You're not the only who has experienced this. If it's night time and the area is not well it, if you're male, I cross the street. I don't care what race you are. If it's daylight, and you look like a wanna be gang banger, I'm crossing the street no matter what race you are. If you're a female in a group of 3 or more females, I'm going to cross the street. Personal experience has taught me that groups of girls aren't always safe, either.
The fact is, the majority of police are not bad, they don't abuse their power, they don't brutalize the people they come in contact with.
The fact is, the majority of the people don't give a sht what race you are...well, unless that's all you can talk about. Then they want nothing to do with you because all you do is blame everyone else. No one wants to be around someone who constantly blames everyone else for their own problems.
The fact is, you don't have to be wealthy or come from a good family to be able to make it. You just have to have enough respect for yourself. If you don't have respect for yourself, that's on you. You don't get to blame that on someone else. That crosses both genders and all racial lines. People who have no respect for themselves tend to have a crappy life.
The point is, all of this crap happens to people of all races, both genders, all ages. You are not special.
Your key to success no matter what race you are, no matter what your financial situation: Respect yourself enough to work hard, be successful in school, talk to the teachers if you need more assistance, talk to the guidance counselor - they aren't there just to guard the pop machine, they are there for you to talk to about what you could possibly do with your life. Turn in your homework. Pay attention in class. Take notes. Study. ALL of that is FREE! Graduate with excellent grades. Get started on your essays at the beginning of your senior year. USE what you have lived through as part of your essay, but don't whine about it, show them what you did in spite of it. Volunteer. Take part in social activities in your community. Apply for scholarships...there's so many out there that are untouched, year after year after year. I'm sick and tired of hearing how "po' people just can't get to college". Yes, they can. You work hard enough, you get the right scholarship, you can have gone through 16 years of schooling and not paid one thin dime. And, some of those scholarships give you PAID internship over the summers AND 2 years of work, right out of college as part of their footing the bill for your education.
Stop sniveling about what you don't have, stop crying about how hard life is - shut the hell up and start working on your life instead of whining about how it appears as if others have it so much easier. No, not all others have it so much easier. Concentrate on yourself for once.
Right because it is the generational American experience that created the issues among a segment of Black Americans today. Black Americans largely descend from the African groups that are most successful today but the U.S. purposely destroyed their cultures. Further, Africans that come here don't come with any "black" identity. They come as Yoruba, Ibgo, Hausa, Ewe, Ashanti etc. with all their cultures and traditions in tact.
The U.S. destroyed peoples cultures and did its best to create an underclass. Thankfully most black Americans are not a part of that but there is a minority that is. It will take much to repair because it took plenty violent efforts in this nation to create.
It's amusing to listen to bourgeois, historically-ignorant white liberals lecture not just white people, but black people about how their cultures have disappeared. The paternalism and condescension is eventually obvious to everyone but the condescending, ignorant white liberals. You should go onto the rez and tell those hopeless American Indians how their culture is gone, robbed by the United States. They'll love you.
Often times one is not debating a person, but rather, disinformation. Disinformation should be challenged, regardless, with the understanding that you are not likely to change the opinion of the messenger, but rather, keeping others aware of counter explanations.
I eagerly await your information on "systemic racism."
Nope, there are still plenty of crazy feminists today who have made victimhood into their religion.
Quote:
Irish, Jews
These groups have always been white in America and faced none of the obstacles that blacks did. Irish-American people were recently in the media trying to invent that they had been slaves in America.
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Native Americans
Native Americans still have a "victim mentality" on par with blacks, and have worse social issues on their reservations.
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poor whites.
Poor whites are still mired in poverty and social issues.
Quote:
They dont let the history of their ancestors, inequality, discrimination, oppression of the past overshadow and haunt their present and future.
You know dam well that no one is going to silence that person. Unless you are a mod, no one can bully another into silence. If you are free to make an argument and your opposition is free to make an argument, then your silence is your inability to make an argument or recognizing the futility in trying to get a person to see your point.
I don't completely disagree with this. Either people don't have an argument, or people don't have the backbone to keep at it.
I'm not trashing on someone who doesn't have it in them to keep doing this, entirely, but as I've been saying, if people do not continue to speak, none of this changes for the better. It will only get worse.
I'm tired of people backing down. Going to the voting booth is not enough.
The squeaky wheel gets the oil. It's time we take that oil away from them.
we need to start talking about it. day in and day out, black people aren't owning up to their own shortcomings. in"fact, they've even gone as far as to create an invisible boogieman, white privilege, to bridge the gap where they have failed. repeat, the term "white privilege" is used so black people can have an excuse, or a cop out where they have failed miserably. not making enough money? it's white privilege. credit score low? it's not your revolving debt, it's white privilege. didn't get an apartment? well, you know what that is? that's white privilege and the fact that credit scores are racist. never in my life have I seen such fragility and the inability to accept the results of their personal decisions. when are black people going to stop believing in ghosts, and step to the plate and produce? I do think that with all things, the bad ones are certainly the minority, but they are vocal. clearly the majority doesn't support the rioting in our cities, but the majority won't speak up against it for fear of being called "racist" or "unwoke". I would say that we are witnessing the most embarrassing moment in US history. at least during my lifetime. I never thought I would see a day more embarrassing than when barrack obama got elected, but here we are.
and for the record, it ain't just black people. fem privilege and fem persecution complex is getting completely out of control.
What you should be doing is applauding black people for enduring continual human and civil rights violations in this country for centuries and still having survived to an extent and still able to make progress in education, business, entertainment, and sports. Despite the heavy overwhelming burden of racism, discrimination, persecution, and violence toward people of color.
If you want to talk about responsibility and shortcomings, let's talk about those white individuals who were born with white privilege who are on welfare, on drugs, and in poverty. What is their excuse?
What you perceive as a shortcomings are the results of continuous and consistent disenfranchisement of a people because of their color. To live in terror of those who are meant to protect. To always have to do more to prove that you are equal to those who refuse to accept you as equal. To have to deal with racism in the workplace even though you do more work than required.
You fail to read the statistics where black people with the same qualifications as whites don't get the low interest rates or the loans to start a business. That's fact and historically recorded as such. But you don't want to take the time to READ and UNDERSTAND. Sure, there are irresponsible people in every culture and race. But let's be honest with ourselves about how the system is stacked even against those who try to do everything right. It's exhausting to try to open the eyes of individuals who think that the playing field is all of a sudden level for every citizen. When in reality it is not. There are countless books out there to help people like you understand this. But you have already made up in your mind that black people are inferior and lazy. There's a word for that. But even still those who are in power are even trying to make that word, racist, and turn it around to those on the receiving end as racists. Imagine that.Having the privilege to redefine someone's experience and lot in life for them.
You are yet another person putting the responsibility of the oppressed, discriminated against, and disenfranchised instead of those with the power to change the toxic culture in this country.
Those who are privileged and yet complicit with the continued systemic and institutionalized racism and discrimination in this country needs to do the heavy lifting and the work. They are the ones with the shortcomings of holding the power to end racism and discrimination, and yet do nothing but blame those under the oppressive system that they, the privileged set up to protect their privilege.
Wake up. Just because life worked out for you doesn't mean those who have less have shortcomings. Especially in a system built to keep them having less.
Racism and discrimination don't cease to exist just because you say they don't exist. Redrawing the narrative to fit your view from your bubble is a bad habit of the privileged.
Instead, acknowledge and accept the fact that this country has far too long allowed the oppression and disenfranchisement of people of color that has resulted in poverty and even health related issues for the black community.
And if you an accept and acknowledge that, then this thread wouldn't exist.
And you base this calculation upon what measurement? What are the degrees of "privilege" and how do you gauge them? I take it that you're smart enough to understand that an individual born in Appalachia isn't particularly "privileged," so how does his privilege measure against a middle class white person? Which criteria go into measuring "privilege?"
Why don't you make these same arguments when it comes to black people in the U.S.? Being born black in the U.S. isn't particularly privileged. Given U.S. history, it isn't privileged compared to other generational Americans.
The person I responded to said that poor whites don't allow their ancestors, inequality, discrimination, oppression of the past overshadow and haunt their present and future. I'm asking why they still are poor then. Newer minority groups have come here and excelled while many poor whites remain poor. Why must we understand the plight of poor whites but not that of blacks who historically had it worse as group?
My biggest issue is with some people pretending that no one else, only they, get trashed on, looked over, ignored, followed, dismissed, attacked, etc. It happens to a lot of people, regardless of what they look like. Hell, didn't we just see a little old lady get punched while walking down the sidewalk, minding her own business? Was that her "white privilege"?
The below are all general "you":
If you don't do well in school, don't take it seriously, guess what? You're not going to be very successful in life. It doesn't matter if you're "from the projects", if you do well in school, you have a plethora of scholarships available to you based on what you DID not what you look like. Sick and tired of the whining about how some people can't get to college because they were poor. Just shut up. Scholarships are out there for anyone and everyone who actually applies themselves while in school. Some of them give you a 100% free ride. No excuses.
If you get an attitude with a cop, it doesn't matter who you are, you're going to have a very bad day.
If you break the law, it doesn't matter who you are, you're going to have to answer for it.
If you violate a traffic law, but you treat the cop with respect, chances are, (unless it's a female cop), you can get off with a warning. (Female cops will always give you a citation, no matter who you are, so just accept that and f-en deal with it.)
I'm a white female. I've been followed in stores many times. I understand how annoying that is, how insulting that is. Instead of making a big scene, I simply went to the manager and told them that their little undercover store security sucked at his job. Yes, those were literally the words I used.
A lot of people are scared of anyone and everyone - no, you're not the only person who has experienced someone in their car locking their doors when they see you.
Being accused of being something that you're not, in public, at a business - no, you're not the only person who has experienced that.
Being looked down on because of some physical trait about you - skin color, gender, height? No, you're not the only person who has experienced that.
Didn't get the promotion even though you know damn well that you were more qualified than the ******* who did get it? You're not the only person who has experienced that. Some people kiss ass so hard, it's repulsive. I had one co-worker who had "Coffee Wednesdays" where she would bring in coffee for her and the boss. No one else. Her suck ass got the promotion. Nothing to do with skin color or gender or ability - everything to do with kissing the boss' big, fat derriere.
You got fired? Laid off? You're not the only person who has experienced that.
Didn't get the job because of who you are? You're not the only person who has experienced that. Many years ago, when I lived in Seattle, I applied for a job. Got an interview. Went in, and all the person interviewing me could talk about was that she was gay, that many people who came into the store were gay, was I gay? When I said no, she asked if I could "deal with gay people". Of course I could. This job did not require skill, but I didn't get it. You will never convince me it was not because I'm not gay, because that's ALL the interviewer talked about. It isn't just you.
Or how about those who are older? They get passed up a lot. Doesn't matter their race. So, again, you're not the only one who has experienced this.
Walking down the street, you see people cross the street away from you. You're not the only who has experienced this. If it's night time and the area is not well it, if you're male, I cross the street. I don't care what race you are. If it's daylight, and you look like a wanna be gang banger, I'm crossing the street no matter what race you are. If you're a female in a group of 3 or more females, I'm going to cross the street. Personal experience has taught me that groups of girls aren't always safe, either.
The fact is, the majority of police are not bad, they don't abuse their power, they don't brutalize the people they come in contact with.
The fact is, the majority of the people don't give a sht what race you are...well, unless that's all you can talk about. Then they want nothing to do with you because all you do is blame everyone else. No one wants to be around someone who constantly blames everyone else for their own problems.
The fact is, you don't have to be wealthy or come from a good family to be able to make it. You just have to have enough respect for yourself. If you don't have respect for yourself, that's on you. You don't get to blame that on someone else. That crosses both genders and all racial lines. People who have no respect for themselves tend to have a crappy life.
The point is, all of this crap happens to people of all races, both genders, all ages. You are not special.
Your key to success no matter what race you are, no matter what your financial situation: Respect yourself enough to work hard, be successful in school, talk to the teachers if you need more assistance, talk to the guidance counselor - they aren't there just to guard the pop machine, they are there for you to talk to about what you could possibly do with your life. Turn in your homework. Pay attention in class. Take notes. Study. ALL of that is FREE! Graduate with excellent grades. Get started on your essays at the beginning of your senior year. USE what you have lived through as part of your essay, but don't whine about it, show them what you did in spite of it. Volunteer. Take part in social activities in your community. Apply for scholarships...there's so many out there that are untouched, year after year after year. I'm sick and tired of hearing how "po' people just can't get to college". Yes, they can. You work hard enough, you get the right scholarship, you can have gone through 16 years of schooling and not paid one thin dime. And, some of those scholarships give you PAID internship over the summers AND 2 years of work, right out of college as part of their footing the bill for your education.
Stop sniveling about what you don't have, stop crying about how hard life is - shut the hell up and start working on your life instead of whining about how it appears as if others have it so much easier. No, not all others have it so much easier. Concentrate on yourself for once.
Don't get emotional when you respond to these people. Quote numbers. Know their arguments and prepare for them. Most importantly, ask questions. When they try sophistry to avoid them, keep asking the questions. It's not about convincing them, it's about convincing all the people observing. If they even bother trying to answer my questions in this thread, watch how they evade and employ rhetorical three-card monte tricks to not getting dragged into validating their claims. Think about how someone in the middle will probably assess them and their beliefs when they behave like this.
Why don't you make these same arguments when it comes to black people in the U.S.? Being born black in the U.S. isn't particularly privileged. Given U.S. history, it isn't privileged compared to other generational Americans.
The person I responded to said that poor whites don't allow their ancestors, inequality, discrimination, oppression of the past overshadow and haunt their present and future. I'm asking why they still are poor than? Newer minority groups have come here and excelled and they are still there. Why must we understand the plight of poor whites but not that of blacks who historically had it worse as group?
I do. I base it upon class, not race/ethnicity.
Now, please answer my question: how do you measure "privilege?" You clearly implied that there are gradations. By what criteria do you measure?
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