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That was the more common thinking of the era and not just a Confederate thing but an era thing. Lincoln and others who were abolitionists did not all necessarily believe in racial egalitarianism, but were just anti-slavery, wanted to preserve the union etc. Egalitarianism is really a post WWII philosophy. Even if you were wrong about racial egalitarianism, that in itself doesn't necessarily mean you were immoral. Democrats today argue whites are morally inferior all the time. Does that make Democrats necessarily immoral too?
Lincoln being a racist doesn't absolve the Confederacy's motives. Alexander Stephens' Cornerstone Speech differs for this reason: It confirms that the Confederacy was founded explicitly to hold onto enslaving Black people and to promote white supremacy. Stephens made no bones about it. The Articles of Secession and the Confederate Constitution made no bones about it either. Anyone who was a Confederate deserves no honors, period.
Umm................. we know that the Confederacy supported slavery. This is not a revelation.
We also know that Arabs and Africans were the main sellers of slaves to the west.
We know that Jefferson banned the importation of slaves in 1807.
We know that the first abolishionist newspaper in the US was in Jonesboro, TN, not the northeast.
We know that Grant freed his slave in 1856. We know that Lee freed his slaves in 1862.
We know that there were blacks, as well as whites, who owned slaves.
We know that Hispanics, Africans, American Indians, and Asians owned slaves.
We know that the vast majority of the Confederate soldiers did not own slaves.
We know that 200 years from now, it would be lunacy to judge citizens of today from the prism of 2220.
We know that Union divisions from Southern Illinois and Indiana deserted after the Emancipation Proclamation.
We know that northern democrats, called Copperheads, supported slavery. These are democrat areas still today.
Civilization was not perfect at its inception. Mankind and civilization has changed over the last 5,000 years and has moved toward a less violent, more educated society. Denying the past and the growth of mankind is like ignoring one's own childhood and teen years. We are far different people that we were when we were young, and nations are the same.
If you want to look at evil movements in history, look no further than communism/marxism, which is responsible for the deaths of hundreds of millions of people. However, the left conveniently ignores this part of history and focuses instead on the US Confederacy.
Get over it.
Look, hawkeye, none of this absolves the Confederates. Period. We are talking about why the former Confederate states wanted secession. We are talking about Alexander Stephens and the Confederate cause. Stick to the topic and do not bring in any outside stuff. All you're doing at this point is gaslighting. And no, I'm not going to "get over it".
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Umm................. we know that the Confederacy supported slavery. This is not a revelation.
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The South was fighting to preserve slavery, and actually, this is denied ALL the time! I'm sure you're well aware of that - no one in this country couldn't be, because there are an awful lot of deniers out there. And the ironic thing is, the people who deny it say that those who accurately say the South was fighting to preserve slavery, are the ones who have revised history!
I'll get over it when people stop denying it. And once we have the courage to tell the truth and acknowledge what the cause of the Confederates was, then we can also see why it's not right to glorify their cause with statues of their generals looming over city squares everywhere, and understand why African Americans in particular, find these statues strange and offensive.
The South was fighting to preserve slavery, and actually, this is denied ALL the time! I'm sure you're well aware of that - no one in this country couldn't be, because there are an awful lot of deniers out there. And the ironic thing is, the people who deny it say that those who accurately say the South was fighting to preserve slavery, are the ones who have revised history!
I'll get over it when people stop denying it. And once we have the courage to tell the truth and acknowledge what the cause of the Confederates was, then we can also see why it's not right to glorify their cause with statues of their generals looming over city squares everywhere.
I've had arguments on this board with people that denied the civil war was primarily over slavery.
In the 21st century that level of ignorance is pathetic.
And it's not hard to understand why to blacks that could feel like Holocaust denial does to Jews.
Lincoln being a racist doesn't absolve the Confederacy's motives. Alexander Stephens' Cornerstone Speech differs for this reason: It confirms that the Confederacy was founded explicitly to hold onto enslaving Black people and to promote white supremacy. Stephens made no bones about it. The Articles of Secession and the Confederate Constitution made no bones about it either. Anyone who was a Confederate deserves no honors, period.
Being people of their era absolves them. No one honors them for slavery or not being egalitarianist but as soldiers and veterans who were defending their state.
The South was fighting to preserve slavery, and actually, this is denied ALL the time! I'm sure you're well aware of that - no one in this country couldn't be, because there are an awful lot of deniers out there. And the ironic thing is, the people who deny it say that those who accurately say the South was fighting to preserve slavery, are the ones who have revised history!
I'll get over it when people stop denying it. And once we have the courage to tell the truth and acknowledge what the cause of the Confederates was, then we can also see why it's not right to glorify their cause with statues of their generals looming over city squares everywhere, and understand why African Americans in particular, find these statues strange and offensive.
Yep. I've met plenty of these denialist types growing up. I went to high school with some of them, in the early 2000s. And not adults either, teenagers. A few of them would claim "heritage not hate". I learned that some people weren't worth discussing it because they would react angrily at me telling them "it was about slavery". It's not all that ironic that pro-Confederates accuse others other historical revisionism. It's known as hypocrisy.
I will get over it when people stop flying Confederate flags, or at least stop pretending that it's about "southern heritage". I will get over it when the Confederate statues come down, for good. I think some people know why most African-Americans find the Confederate flag and Confederate statues offensive. Many individuals don't care, and see it as "if Blacks don't like it, they can leave the South". The irony: A majority of African-Americans are southerners. And even for African-Americans living outside of the south, the majority have roots in the South via grandparents and great-grandparents.
Being people of their era absolves them. No one honors them for slavery or not being egalitarianist but as soldiers and veterans who were defending their state.
No it doesn't. In that era, it was my ancestors who were being enslaved. Anyone who would fight on behalf of a cause to ensure my permanent enslavement is an enemy of mine. Anyone who wanted to form a nation based on ensuring the permanent enslavement of Blacks, is an enemy. I don't care what era it was. This is why I smile with someone burns a Confederate flag, or when a Confederate statue is removed. The Confederate cause was about making sure my ancestors would stay enslaved. Of course I know you wouldn't care.
I've had arguments on this board with people that denied the civil war was primarily over slavery.
In the 21st century that level of ignorance is pathetic.
And it's not hard to understand why to blacks that could feel like Holocaust denial does to Jews.
At this point, I've lost all of my patience with the pro-Confederate denialists. I don't think ignorance is the issue for some. For some people, it's obstinance. You could tell them all day that slavery was a major reason. However, they have to want to stop flying the Confederate flag. They have to stop wanting to respect Confederates. They have to want to change for the better. Some people don't want to change.
No it doesn't. In that era, it was my ancestors who were being enslaved. Anyone who would fight on behalf of a cause to ensure my permanent enslavement is an enemy of mine. Anyone who wanted to form a nation based on ensuring the permanent enslavement of Blacks, is an enemy. I don't care what era it was. This is why I smile with someone burns a Confederate flag, or when a Confederate statue is removed. The Confederate cause was about making sure my ancestors would stay enslaved. Of course I know you wouldn't care.
Well that's you. To some others it has nothing to do with blacks and slavery. They shouldn't be forced to cater to your druthers.
Well that's you. To some others it has nothing to do with blacks and slavery. They shouldn't be forced to cater to your druthers.
It has everything to do with Blacks and slavery. The Confederate cause was all about making sure Blacks stayed enslaved. Confederate generals do not deserve any accolades or statues of their likeness. I don't care if you think of it as me "being catered to".
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