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Old 06-21-2020, 11:54 AM
 
26,694 posts, read 14,561,042 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by workingclasshero View Post
they have been doing that for 50+ years....


the problem that these 'liberal' teachers wont show is that while socialism and communism may look good on paper, in reality they are horrible
No. It never looked good on paper.

It’s an evil ideology, morally reprehensible at every level.
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Old 06-21-2020, 11:56 AM
 
26,694 posts, read 14,561,042 times
Reputation: 8094
Quote:
Originally Posted by crone View Post
Depends on who is doing the looking. How is capitalism good for the people on the bottom?

Don't tell me it's their own fault for not having brains and gumption. In order to have a top, there must be a bottom.
Capitalism is simply freedom. Voluntary trade and ownership of property. Are you saying people at the bottom shouldn’t enjoy freedom?

Communism and socialism are simply slavery in the modern term.
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Old 06-21-2020, 12:12 PM
 
Location: Berwick, Penna.
16,215 posts, read 11,333,999 times
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The problem I have with many of these so-called "educators" is that they are too quick to praise "refined" Europe as a model; usually based on a few months spent there as a student -- and only in the more-developed portions of the Continent, and too often, they fail to acknowledge the rebellion and questioning of authority that is central to the American character; (hence soccer-good; tackle football-BAD)

In Europe, Communist and Socialist parties have been accommodated for well over a century -- they govern many cities. When they do lose an election, they surrender their power an go back to the role of loyal opposition -- no harm, no foul. And in Britain, they represent the most-radicalized wing of the established Labor Party (as many of the Left-leaners here hope to do with the Democrats).

The only problem I see here is that occasionally, one of the lunatic fringes gets out of control --- as in Russia in 1917 or Germany in 1933 and the dead bodies start piling up. And no, my children, the rise of Trump is nowhere close to that sort of upheaval; there is no consolidated center-right party at present, because the various strains within the Republican and Libertarian parties can't agree on a compromise -- but they did coalesce in self-defense to elect Trump in 2016 -- and might repeat the performance.

Last edited by 2nd trick op; 06-21-2020 at 01:09 PM..
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Old 06-21-2020, 12:47 PM
 
10,800 posts, read 3,593,128 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by T0103E View Post
No problem with reading it in school, but the fact that many teachers actually see Marxism as a valid “philosophy” is the scary part. That article was pretty infuriating.
Every philosophy is valid. Not every philosophy is a good one. However, it is willfully ignorant to rail against a philosophy without understanding it well.
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Old 06-21-2020, 01:02 PM
 
10,800 posts, read 3,593,128 times
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Originally Posted by lifeexplorer View Post
Personally, if it were my school, I would take the school to court and have the teacher fired.
You would lose.
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Old 06-21-2020, 01:11 PM
 
Location: Philaburbia
41,959 posts, read 75,183,468 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lifeexplorer View Post
Capitalism is simply freedom. Voluntary trade and ownership of property. Are you saying people at the bottom shouldn’t enjoy freedom?

Communism and socialism are simply slavery in the modern term.
Free to do what? Free to be required to work toward the profit of others in order to live? Free to work long hours so that an owner or shareholder can make even more money? Free to worry about what will happen to you if you get sick because the health care industry is profit driven?

No economic/social or political system is perfect, and there is a loss of freedom built into every single one.
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Old 06-21-2020, 01:16 PM
 
Location: Old Dominion
3,307 posts, read 1,218,405 times
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What is the issue? The teacher taught excerpts of the Communist Manifesto in relation to the industrial revolution. This is pretty relevant to the topic, even if one doesn’t subscribe to the ideology it is still good to know the arguments that the ideology makes. Are we going to start banning books that one doesn’t like? Some on the far left and far right already advocate for this.
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Old 06-21-2020, 01:17 PM
 
Location: Berwick, Penna.
16,215 posts, read 11,333,999 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohiogirl81 View Post
Free to do what? Free to be required to work toward the profit of others in order to live? Free to work long hours so that an owner or shareholder can make even more money? Free to worry about what will happen to you if you get sick because the health care industry is profit driven?

No economic/social or political system is perfect, and there is a loss of freedom built into every single one.
If you don't like the choices, you're "free" to open your own business, or "free" to supply more of your own wants as a subsistence farmer or "urban homesteader".

Most sheltered suburbanites would run away screaming from those "options" after a few days.
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Old 06-21-2020, 01:18 PM
 
17,304 posts, read 12,242,173 times
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If you didn’t get lessons on comparative government styles your education is incomplete.
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Old 06-21-2020, 01:56 PM
 
Location: Madison, WI
5,301 posts, read 2,354,699 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohiogirl81 View Post
Free to do what? Free to be required to work toward the profit of others in order to live? Free to work long hours so that an owner or shareholder can make even more money? Free to worry about what will happen to you if you get sick because the health care industry is profit driven?

No economic/social or political system is perfect, and there is a loss of freedom built into every single one.
Those are issues with nature itself. If you're dropped on an island alone, with nobody else there to give you anything, you have to work to stay alive and to produce anything you want or need. It isn't capitalism that places us in that situation.

Marx's philosophy creates resentment toward entrepreneurs - probably because he never had a job and resented employers for not wanting to hire him, but that's another topic. It's not "fair" that we can't just get stuff simply for existing, but it's even less fair that some people have to work to produce things, and others can simply take it from them. People try to dress it up as "sharing", but sharing requires consent on both sides.

Long story short, someone has to work to provide the things we have. No one is entitled to a job, or money, or healthcare, or anything just because they exist. It's wrong to let other people produce a good or service, label them as selfish and evil if they become successful, and claim that they're stealing from the people that decided to work for them. If that entrepreneur didn't start their business, those employees' jobs would never exist in the first place. Marxism is a philosophy of envy and it drags society down to the lowest common denominator.
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