COVID Contradictions (parties, economy, governor, states)

[Lekrii]

American individualism is showing to be extremely harmful. We are so far behind other countries in our response to this pandemic, largely because people can't be bothered to socially distance and wear masks because of 'personal freedom' concerns. So many people in the US would rather put other people at risk than be mildly inconvenienced, and on top of that we have a president who thinks we should stop testing so that we see less documented cases. That's the same logic as putting a piece of tape over your fuel gauge when you're low on gas, and claiming you have a full tank.

[Icy Tea]

I can only add anecdotal evidence on what happened in Pa and my area. The virus is very contagious, VERY. But we're lucky in that it is not serious in most cases and the mortality rate is less than 1% with the elderly and those with serious medical conditions being most of the victims. Places that NEEDED to be locked down, weren't early on. Nursing homes, managed care facilities. People with at risk medical conditions should have isolated themselves but they'd still be doing that so maybe that's not an option for most. I think that many new cases are those that did isolate but have since gone out and just now caught it.
Then there was the fustercluck from the CDC and WHO and state and federal governments who had no idea what they were dealing with and were shooting in the dark trying to stop it or stop a panic. First it was on everything we touched, now it isn't. People have stopped wearing gloves and wiping down whatever they touch, but the masks they wear. I guess only one security blanket is what they want. They social distance sometimes, some are quite nutty about it. Or they don't. We don't at work. But the 6 foot rule was never proven to have ANY medical merit, 25 feet was effective in an indoor area with no ventilation. That's not doable so it was made to be 6 feet which is doable. But not really effective.
The masks are of limited use to begin with. They won't protect you from inhaling an airbourne virus. It will stop you from spewing an aerosol of droplets onto surfaces or into the air so it is of some use.
My workplace takes temps and doe shealth screenings. That was like locking the door to keep a murderer out but only after he got inside and started killing people. We all were exposed before these measures were taken and probably everybody had it already. If we have immunity from it, the measures are pretty much pointless by now. If we don't then its of some use. But its more of a security blanket like everything else. If you feel safe, you are safe.
The lockdowns were just completely arbitrary, ineffective and incredibly damaging to the economy. Big box retailers and Amazon remained open( thanks to government connections) but small stores had to shut down. Places that were far safer to shop at had to close.People wereput out of work and given extra money for unemployment. It was insane and incredibly self destructive to the economy.
Worrying about protesters and looters not wearing masks... insanity. Basically the country has had a schizoid episode and we have yet to recover any sense of reality.How we recover has yet to be seen. maybe people will just get tired of it and stop the charade or they'll double down and go full mental patient. But its hard to have a sense of hope when your psychiatrist is in the rubber room in a straightjacket along with you.

[Leo58]

Originally Posted by Lekrii

American individualism is showing to be extremely harmful. .

True enough. I have a friend from China who told me back in FEBRUARY that China controlled the pandemic by strict lockdown but that it would never work here. Well, we don't want to be like China. Europe, on the other hand, has fared better than us and I think it's because Europeans have a greater sense of societal responsibility.

[Goodnight]

Originally Posted by sonnymarkjiz

https://twitter.com/thealexvanness/s...17632488955908

I am starting to think this. The stuff with the protests and the Trump rally being the biggest weird indicator of the hypocracy. Liek below for example, how can there be a huge spike in the virus in less than 2 days? The incubation period takes about two weeks or so.



It's all about fear and control at this point. The way that these rules have been ruled out have been pretty ridiculous. I was all for flattening the curve and whatnot, but now some of the rules being enforced don't even make sense. We can go to a crowded bar, but can't go to a playground or a park yet. We have to wear masks where most people dont' even bother wearing them or wear them incorrectly. All those people getting arrested for simply being in a park or a beach a few months ago must be livid seeing everyone out in large groups protesting.

I'm all for making sure we're safe, but the way it was done was pitiful. I'm a big proponent of "if you're sick or at risk, stay home. If not, let us be adults and handle things safely"

Sounds like a conspiracy theory, hypocrisy would be if Biden had rallies at indoor venues, protests are a poor comparison.


The actual contradiction is Trump violating his own guidelines and I sure see many adults handling this very poorly.
[/quote]

[roodd279]

I don't see how Europe did better than the USA in any way that matters. They have more deaths - and fewer people in the countries with the most deaths. But debates like this do not help - at all.


It's a virus. It's gonna do what it does. There is some real validity in the statement about our population doing "not much" to help itself.


Here are your choices: Stay in/Go out, Wear a mask/don't wear a mask, Open businesses/do not open...etc...


BOTH choices are not right. Only one. Whichever way you think it is - only ONE choice is "right" the other is foolish nonsense. But our country is so divided, folks will do the opposite of their neighbor just to prove a point. They would literally rather die then admit they're wrong. Weirdest thing I've ever seen.



About the federal guidance - as you can see - the rate of outbreak around the nation is not something that is suitable to federal onesizefitsall guidance. Why? Because it makes no sense to keep Wyoming businesses closed until Texas clears up...then what? Keep Texas closed until Wyoming clears up? No. It's not even really "state to state" but more like "population center to population center" - so it's hard, even for states, to do the right thing, esp bordering states.


The only federal guidance possible would be that ALL states remain closed until the LAST ONE clears up. Otherwise - ya gotta let states make their decision. In that regard - you're correct - no federal guidelines beyond the broad steps - but what choice do they have? They can't manage states individually.

[rjshae]

Originally Posted by King_Henry

We were told we needed to lockdown to flatten the curve so that hospitals and ICUs would not be overwhelmed with patients. At the same time, we are being told that we need to avoid getting the virus altogether.

Err, those are the same thing. You flatten the curve by avoiding getting the virus.

[sonnymarkjiz]

Originally Posted by Goodnight

Sounds like a conspiracy theory, hypocrisy would be if Biden had rallies at indoor venues, protests are a poor comparison.


The actual contradiction is Trump violating his own guidelines and I sure see many adults handling this very poorly.

[/quote]
What is the conspiracy theory here? Do you just use it whenever you don't have an actual point?

You realize that being arm to arm, shoulder to shoudler next to someone outdoors STILL can spread the virus, right? People in these protests aren't wearing masks and aren't social distancing.

[Mircea]

Originally Posted by King_Henry

This despite the fact that we have plenty of hospital beds available and most people don't require hospitalization.

Stop the nonsense right there.

You have 924,107 beds of which 55,663 are ICU beds.

Some of those beds are already occupied, and COVID-19 did not cause a moratorium on accidents, injuries, or other diseases and illnesses.

Furthermore, many of those beds are for specialty hospitals such as spinal chord injury rehabilitation facilities, traumatic brain injury facilities, cancer treatment facilities and such.

With the obvious exception of a cardio-pulmonary facility, none of the specialty facilities are equipped or staffed -- yes, staffed is the operand here -- to deal with COVID-19.

That's why doctors were furloughed.

A neurosurgeon has no clue how to treat COVID-19 because s/he is a neurosurgeon and not a cardio-pulmonary specialist.

Lather, Rinse, Repeat for Allergists, Anesthesiologists, Bariatrics, Burn/Trauma, Dermatology, Electrophysiology, Endocrinology, Geriatrics, Gynecologic Oncology, Interventional Radiology, Neonatology, Nephrology, Neuroradiology, Neurology, Neurosurgery, Nuclear Medicine, Obstetrics & Gynecology, Occupational Medicine, Ophthalmology, Otolaryngology, Plastic & Reconstructive Surgery, Podiatric Surgery, Psychiatry, Radiation Oncology, Radiology, Rheumatology, Surgical Oncology, Gastroenterology, Orthopedics and Urology.

Perhaps if those physicians were to take orders and be under the supervision of a cardio-pulmonary specialist they might be useful.

But given doctors' egos, I'm just not seeing it happen.

Originally Posted by King_Henry

Managing the spread is a controlled way of reaching herd immunity through a high total infection percentage.

"Herd immunity" (snicker) is an unproven hypothesis.

The instances in which "herd immunity" (snicker) is believed to exist had 90% of the population vaccinated.

There are known cases where someone vaccinated with rubella transmitted the disease to a person not vaccinated.

The point being it's possible to be vaccinated and still be a carrier of a disease, and that sort of refutes the whole "herd immunity" nonsense.

Originally Posted by King_Henry

Where this virus gets further confusing is that people under age 65 have a very low death rate.

Immaterial and irrelevant.

The death rate was never the issue.

Never means "at no time ever."

The has always been and continues to be the hospitalization rate.

The 18-34 crowd has the highest rate of hospitalization followed by the 35-54 crowd.

Yes, they recover, but only because the healthcare resources are available to treat them.

Once a hospital is over-run, and no healthcare resources are available, it doesn't matter how healthy you are, you're going to die.

You just have to look at the death rates in other States.

Britain, Italy, France, Spain et al have government funded healthcare and the program was underfunded so hospitals were not adequately equipped and worse than that those hospitals were understaffed.

They got over-run quickly and at that point, it's no longer about saving lives it's all about deciding who has the best chance to live.

Read the Italian newspapers and how doctors were crying tears because they had to choose who would live and who would die.

So there you are, your lungs are not inflating properly and filled with your own bodily fluids and you're effectively drowning to death.

And 3 others are in the same boat, but alas, there's only one ventilator and you need it or you'll die but so do the other 3 people.

Who gets the ventilator?

Not you.

That cute sweet young 20-something and she's a mommy.

So what if she's a drug addict in and out of rehab with a criminal record and you're a model citizen pillar of the community?

The doctors don't know that and even if they did, they wouldn't care.

There is no USGOV Form 8686 OBJECTIVE CRITERION TRIAGE CHECKLIST.

Triage is a "gut call" and 100% objective.

It might help if you dress your best before calling 911 to go to the ER.

Yes, past studies have shown that ER doctors in triage situations are more likely concentrate on the best dressed and not the raggedy people.

Good luck with that.

Originally Posted by King_Henry

To me it seems that there is no guidance on what strategy we should be following.

That's because your governors and other elected and appointed officials are morons.

Originally Posted by King_Henry

Instead of going either the Chinese or Swedish methods,...

We are neither.

Asian culture and American culture are very different.

Swedes are monarchists; Americans are republicans.

The mentality of monarchists is different than that of republicans (and I don't mean Republican Party as anyone opposed to monarchy is a republican).

Also, other States have homogeneous populations, whereas the US has a heterogeneous population.

Homogeneous cultures are impacted by their culture while heterogeneous cultures are not.

Perhaps you can mount the Enchanted Unicorn and fly over the US waving a magic wand and turn the whole country into a homogeneous population with a single culture that is of the Asian or monarchist persuasion.

Have fun with that.

[Cape Cod Todd]

Originally Posted by Ohiogirl81

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cape Cod Todd
They are trying to flatten the curve...
the curve being a chart that shows Trump outpacing Biden in the election.







Give the stupid conspiracy theories a rest. Nobody cares about your paranoia.

Geez relax it was a joke not a conspiracy paranoia theory! it was a joke.

[Goodnight]

What is the conspiracy theory here? Do you just use it whenever you don't have an actual point?

You realize that being arm to arm, shoulder to shoudler next to someone outdoors STILL can spread the virus, right? People in these protests aren't wearing masks and aren't social distancing.[/quote]

You seem to think that the data is manipulated, sometimes the reporting period is slow and I'm not saying that a surge on Monday is due to a rally on Saturday. Indoors is multiples worse than outdoors but yes protestors could also spread the virus.