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c'mon and open your wallet to the government? what you don't get is because they've spent all your money, they also tap into foreign governments and borrow from them ... c'mon is not going to be what you say when they can't pay those loans. the word is sovereignty, which is what is in jeapordy, the u.s. and yours.
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Originally Posted by green_mariner
I'm more free than I would have been in 1860.
yes, free to pay them your wages ... and they are free to spend it on whatever they choose, annual increase in their salaries for one ...
and you two are worried about what? oh yes, a symbol on a flag.
Slavery didn't end, but you all can pretend it did, can't fault you for that. Can't fault you, because that's what you were told and you believe them.
Nobody who is a proponent of getting rid of Confederate flags is saying it's going to change economic or social issues on its own. Puhleeze. Now on the other hand, the fact that you have to mobilize public pressure in the face of entrenched opposition actually can carry over to advocacy into other areas or issues. In fact, the question has to be asked of the parties that are so invested in these Confederate flags - why are you so vehement about protecting a piece of cloth that represents a not-so-glorious past, and are trying to whitewash history?
Protect it? No, it’s long overdue. I laud them for the change. But as you agreed with, I don’t see much value beyond symbolism. It’s the most low-hanging fruit imaginable, and I hope it doesn’t give lawmakers and others room to postpone more meaningful changes.
Protect it? No, it’s long overdue. I laud them for the change. But as you agreed with, I don’t see much value beyond symbolism. It’s the most low-hanging fruit imaginable, and I hope it doesn’t give lawmakers and others room to postpone more meaningful changes.
The connection is that while it’s laudable that the flag will lose its confederate symbology, I fail to see what it will fix. Their deaths aren’t necessarily race-based, but at the end of the day, real problems exist with real solutions, and if patting yourself on the back because of a flag makes you feel better, then fine, but I don’t want it to distract from the real problems - racial and otherwise - which exist.
Perhaps if you detailed a few of the problems you refer to they could be discussed. Throwing out "there are problems" is as nebulous and even meaningless as "we have a long way to go".
I don't buy it. All doors are opened; all barriers are gone. The barriers faced by any single citizen of Mississippi are neither greater nor lesser than barriers faced anywhere else in America. There is neither a station in life nor a position in society that has not been achieved by Black people in America.
The old symbol on the old flag needed to be put to rest. It offended a great many people.
You should remember your claim that you are not influenced by gestures and symbols the next time someone gives you the finger.
Maybe, but it strikes me as a bit lazy that changing from one cloth design to another is supposed to fix anything. Sounds like a good way for some people to pay themselves on the back while sweeping actual, on-the-ground problems under the rug.
It fixes the problem of Mississippi having the wrong damn flag to now having a flag that will represent everyone in the state....not just the hayseeds at the Neshoba County (White) Fair.
That’s what it fixes. The African American residents of Mississippi want and DESERVE a flag that respects their presence in the state too. After all, their ancestor’s labor built the darn state and transformed it from a swampy forest into into an Agricultural powerhouse within a few decades in the 19th Century.
Nevermind that it “strikes you as a bit lazy” that they’re changing the flag. It needed to be done and got done.
Looking on the bright side: one good thing that has come from this awful time in our country's history. Trump has inadvertently caused the largest elimination of pro-confederacy trophies that we have seen in our lifetimes. I guess in the dawn of a new civil war, at least the idea that the losers of the previous one were anything less than the traitorous evil that they were, is finally put to bed.
Looking on the bright side: one good thing that has come from this awful time in our country's history. Trump has inadvertently caused the largest elimination of pro-confederacy trophies that we have seen in our lifetimes. I guess in the dawn of a new civil war, at least the idea that the losers of the previous one were anything less than the traitorous evil that they were, is finally put to bed.
Nonsense. The people you refer to were victims of history every bit as much as the average German or Japanese soldier in WW2.
I recommend you read "When I Was a Slave". It is a collection of first hand accounts as told by ex slaves. Commissioned during The Depression by FDR, it was written by journalists and taken word-for-word as it was told.
You will learn much, some of which supports your "they were all evil" meme and some of which refutes it.
Looking on the bright side: one good thing that has come from this awful time in our country's history. Trump has inadvertently caused the largest elimination of pro-confederacy trophies that we have seen in our lifetimes. I guess in the dawn of a new civil war, at least the idea that the losers of the previous one were anything less than the traitorous evil that they were, is finally put to bed.
So why did President Lincoln mourn when his brother-in-law, a Confederate officer was killed, and invite his wife (Mary Todd's sister) to stay in the White House?
People today are so small compared to the giants we had back then.
The connection is that while it’s laudable that the flag will lose its confederate symbology, I fail to see what it will fix. Their deaths aren’t necessarily race-based, but at the end of the day, real problems exist with real solutions, and if patting yourself on the back because of a flag makes you feel better, then fine, but I don’t want it to distract from the real problems - racial and otherwise - which exist.
Alright, but I don't see how it's distracting from the real problems, or plausible solutions. We can agree to disagree.
Slavery didn't end, but you all can pretend it did, can't fault you for that. Can't fault you, because that's what you were told and you believe them.
Uh you do know Green Mariner is black? as in his 1860 ancestors were getting whipped and sold black?
You can redefine slavery all you want, but, playing along with the redefinition, it appears you fail to differentiate the 2020 and 1860 versions of "slavery".
BTW there are a number of places you can go. Besides all the "go to Somalia" comments, In the US you could go to Slab City, live off the grid and pay almost nothing in taxes.
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