Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Yes, but stereotypes come from somewhere, no? I agree stereotypes are a terrible thing to apply to an individual who is a member of a stereotyped group, and I certainly do not believe that you personally meet that stereotype in any way, but it would help your cause to look inwards and see if there are segments of your group that can be guided in a different direction. If you have some time, you should watch this segment of McWhorter discussing issues with Loury, they go into detail the issues with black culture in advancing academically, specifically where doing well in school is looked down upon as "acting white" (culture is addressed at 05:40)
The only people that told me I was acting white growing up were non-black. Mostly white people, but not exclusively. And certainly not these days. There may have been a period in my childhood where this was more common, but we are at peak nerd culture right now. "Nerd" stuff is very cool right now. For everyone. Nerd culture is not so inclusive though.
there is a persistent wealth gap between ethnic groups.
Wealth is accumulated by saving and investing. Different groups do this to different degrees on average resulting in wealth gaps. Closing such gaps means eliminating differences in behavior. It isn't clear if this is even possible, let alone a desirable goal for society.
Quote:
It is so ridiculous that single Black women who complete college have lower wealth on average than single white women who only complete high school.
There's also an obesity gap. I wouldn't be surprised if black women who graduate college are even more obese than white women who only finish high school. Shall we also call this unjust? ... blame it on racism?
The term structural racism, is basically that racism is embedded into our systems and institutions. There are tons and tons of materials available that discuss this, but if you want to do a deep dive on it from the housing and criminal justice systems, a good book to read on housing is the Color of Law. And on the justice system, you can watch 13th on Netflix or read The New Jim Crow. These are well researched and explain things well.
Now let's do a quick recap on drugs, since drugs lead to jail. First up drug use and drug sales are equivalent across the ethnic groups, and technically Black people are slightly less likely to use or sell than white people. But the numbers are very close. Additionally people tend to buy drugs from people of your own group. So if all things were equal, drug arrests and sentences would be the same across groups, but Black people are arrested a lot more often. The other thing to remember is that there was a long standing sentencing discrepancy between heroin (used more often by white people) and crack (used more often by Black people) even though they are made of the same source materials. The second thing that causes some of the sentencing disparities is that police officers spend more time patrolling Black neighborhoods, so they miss the drug deals going down in white neighborhoods. The cumulative impact is that while drug use is similar for all ethnic groups, Black people are more likely to be punished and arrested for drugs. And now with the opioid crisis, the messaging on drugs changed completely, and we are looking at is a mental health issue and not a criminal one and treating users with far more compassion than was afforded to Black people during the crack epidemic - which was very similar to the current opioid epidemic.
Can't help but LMAO at the fact that after decades of furiously beating the feminist drum it starts backfiring MASSIVELY. Face it ladies, white women in particular, in the long run you had it way better in the 50s/60s.
The term structural racism, is basically that racism is embedded into our systems and institutions. There are tons and tons of materials available that discuss this, but if you want to do a deep dive on it from the housing and criminal justice systems, a good book to read on housing is the Color of Law. And on the justice system, you can watch 13th on Netflix or read The New Jim Crow. These are well researched and explain things well.
I know about the housing in the past. Does that still exist today? Can you provide some examples of redlining still existing to this day and prove that it is race based. I have seen 13th, it is a compelling documentary. I do agree that we need to do way with the war on drugs, but it is hard to tell where the racially motivated part of this ends and where the differing choices begin. You have to understand, that drug laws were supported by the black community because the black community was being torn up by the crack epidemic and drug lords running the streets.
Quote:
Now let's do a quick recap on drugs, since drugs lead to jail. First up drug use and drug sales are equivalent across the ethnic groups, and technically Black people are slightly less likely to use or sell than white people. But the numbers are very close. Additionally people tend to buy drugs from people of your own group. So if all things were equal, drug arrests and sentences would be the same across groups, but Black people are arrested a lot more often. The other thing to remember is that there was a long standing sentencing discrepancy between heroin (used more often by white people) and crack (used more often by Black people) even though they are made of the same source materials. The second thing that causes some of the sentencing disparities is that police officers spend more time patrolling Black neighborhoods, so they miss the drug deals going down in white neighborhoods. The cumulative impact is that while drug use is similar for all ethnic groups, Black people are more likely to be punished and arrested for drugs. And now with the opioid crisis, the messaging on drugs changed completely, and we are looking at is a mental health issue and not a criminal one and treating users with far more compassion than was afforded to Black people during the crack epidemic - which was very similar to the current opioid epidemic.
Use or sell what? What specific drug are you referring to? Do you think that the majority of drug sales that white people engage in is in the white suburbs close to the city, or would it be the white rural areas that aren't heavily policed period, due to lack of a tax base and low population density? I would say that this makes up for a good deal of the discrepancy. Society has had shifting opinions on the war on drugs for some time, I haven't seen this shift just because white people are on opioids, unless you want to assume the worst about peoples intentions. I think a lot of people were exposed to ideas of how Portugal handled their drug situation and how the prohibition approach doesn't seem to work. I'm sure there are a lot of people out there who viewed the situation differently when it was white people vs black people, but I haven't seen anything that shows that this is at a societal level. You can't hold people of the 80's to our current day woke standards, they did what they thought was best at the time, and it was a failure by and large.
Quote:
A year ago or so, a Long Island newspaper wanted to see if there was bias in real estate. The setup buyers at a variety of income level, credit scores, and ethnicities to buy a home. The net was nonwhite buyers were shown fewer housing options, had to jump through extra hurdles to get to showings, and weren't even shown all the neighborhoods in their budget. There were multiple types of subtle discrimination in the whole process, this has been demonstrated in many other metro areas and it is not an isolated experience. And you may not recall, but Wells Fargo was fined for mortgage bias against Black and Latino buyers during the housing boom - giving them crappier mortgages than their credit scores deserved. Here is a good podcast episode about lending disparities in banking.
I will have to read up on this one, but it sounds like they have a law suit on their hands. Realtors can't engage in what is called steering. I'm not black or Latino, but my dad got a subprime mortgage, given the money he had to put down and his credit score, I will say he got screwed, but he also didn't do his due diligence in looking into it. I will definitely give this one a read. I'm glad to hear that there is a settlement pending, I can't stand Wells Fargo, they are crooks imo.
Quote:
Wealth is built in the US via housing, and redlining has impacted housing costs in ways that persist today, even though the practice ended officially 50+ years ago. There are a lot of resources on how redlining has impacted housing prices even today.
Yes I live in Oakland, and went to college. I am a middle aged black woman, and I live in a middle to upper middle class area, that has been that way since its inception. So I am not a gentrifier, but there are other parts of town where I would be. I see the impact of redlining daily. I live near a couple of popular neighborhoods - Rockridge and Temescal. Rockridge was an area that had covenants that banned nonwhite people from living there. Temescal was a neighborhood that was very mixed and was an area that Asians, Whites, and Black people lived in since like the 1930s or something. And adjacent to that there was another area called Golden Gate that was mostly Black. All 3 of these areas have very similar housing stock (Rockridge has a hilly part that is not relevant for this discussion). They have similar access to amenities, and they each have their own commercial districts. In terms of the architecture, street layout and so on, these areas are interchangeable on the whole. Temescal started to gentrify around 25 years ago, the people who were priced out of Rockridge moved over a couple of blocks to Temescal. The prices were like 30% cheaper. Neighboring Golden Gate was even cheaper, maybe 30% less than Temescal. All of these areas have appreciated in price, and Temescal is only around 15% off Rockridge, and Golden Gate is still 30% or so cheaper than Temescal, but pretty expensive. But the homes in Rockridge were I don't know 400K or something in the 90s, and now cost like $1.3M. And those Golden Gate homes are now like $700K. That is a huge difference in wealth potential for a very similar product. and that is one of the ways the wealth gap persists, housing prices were artificially deflated in the 1920a-40s 0 and remain that way 75 years later! That's one of the structural impacts.
You don't exist outside of the system. You having a high income and living in an area that is experiencing housing shortage, you likely contributed to gentrification. You may not be on the front lines directly with gentrification, but you contributing to pricing people out of your posh area of Oakland meant that they had to move further east to find housing and contribute to gentrification.
Quote:
And about Asian people? Well one output of the Civil Rights Movement that doesn't get discussed much, is how the Immigration rules changed at the same time, to be more inclusive, sort of. The Civil Rights Act opened the door for Asian immigrants - they change the rules form mainly having guest workers come in (e.g. the farm workers from Mexico) to the educated immigrants that have H1 visas and what not. So the wave of immigration from the late 60s to now allowed those educated immigrants to come here and find opportunity. And as we know, education tends to correlate with wealth, and the vast majority of Asian immigrants come here with college degrees - we don't let in that many refugees. And those refugees are not doing well. There is a giant wealth gap amongst asian groups. The Hmong ethnic group from Cambodia is a prime example. And right know Filipinos are overrepresented at the fronts lines of the health care essential workers.
One thing that has happened as we have added more ethnic groups, we have created an unofficial hierarchy that separates out the ethnic groups. Unfortunately us Black people land at the bottom of this totem pole, and we get the worst of the stereotypes. And Asian people have the cover of the model minority myth - but if you dig in deeper, while they well educated Asian-Americans have high income, they are actually underrepresented in a lot of places. I work in tech - and Asian people (all of the various groups) make up lets say 25-30% of the workforce and 2% of the senior leadership. So why aren't Asian people getting promoted? They are qualified on all counts - but something is going wrong somewhere. I have worked at a lot of companies and spent a lot of time consulting, and running into an Asian person at a director+ level was pretty rare compared to the proportion of workers. Tech senior leadership is largely white and male. Even in departments where there are more women and people of color. This myth is inaccurate, but it sure makes for a good story so we can pretend we have progress.
You realize that you will never get full representation in a given area. Hell, I bet if you look at Non-Jewish white people you may find that they are underrepresented in STEM. I will raise your anecdotes about Asians not getting promoted with this story about Indian CEOs in tech. Also household income by ethnicity, in which Indian Americans blow away every other group. Do you realize that someone can be extremely proficient at the skills required for their job, but may not have the skills required to be a boss. This rings true for me. I am a great technician, but I don't have what it takes to manage or the personality for it. I understand that not all groups of Asians are the same, there are some groups that aren't as successful as other groups, I have addressed that on this forum before.
I am talking about current day stuff here and I haven't seen any evidence provided by you that all white people benefit from structural racism.
More admission of race war coming. Whites do stick together with violence and stocked with weapons to wipe out other races although they claim not to.
Maybe it’s instinct? Why should we be judged more harshly than other mammals on the planet?
But you are correct, if there ever was a ridiculous race war you won’t believe how quickly these white liberals will switch sides. They will be like the Italians or French in WWII
You essentially provided the answers in your own question. It's partially white guilt, and partially believing that blacks will like them and approve of them for "being down with the cause." They are seeking validation, but some truly do wish to right the wrongs of history. Some of this is 'kum ba yah' idealism.
Equal access to Jobs and economic prosperity.
If blacks get this all of this will end because all any human being wants is to be able to feed, clothe, and house their family. It is the basest human desire.
They can take a hike. White guilt doesn’t work except on indoctrinated young white women until they grow up and have kids to think about. That’s when they wake up to the BS they’ve been fed.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
