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Old 07-22-2020, 08:01 AM
 
Location: alexandria, VA
16,352 posts, read 8,095,474 times
Reputation: 9726

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Quote:
Originally Posted by zzzSnorlax View Post
Lets just say with the discipline they displayed in that video, sweeping each other with the barrels of their guns multiple times, it is not surprising to me they do not know how to properly maintain them.
I wonder how the wife's gun was assembled so it wouldn't fire. Maybe had the recoil spring in backwards? Must have been an older model piece. Looked like a Walther PPK. These days most semi-autos are practically idiot proof for incorrect re-assembly after take down.
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Old 07-22-2020, 08:03 AM
 
Location: alexandria, VA
16,352 posts, read 8,095,474 times
Reputation: 9726
Quote:
Originally Posted by Floorist View Post
Well, we believe in the right to protect yourself.
So do we in Virginia which is a "shall issue" state. But we don't give carte blanc to idiots.
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Old 07-22-2020, 09:29 AM
 
19,721 posts, read 10,124,301 times
Reputation: 13089
Quote:
Originally Posted by hooligan View Post
Ha! That's not right.

Castle Doctrine simply excuses you from the obligation to retreat. The other bar(s) for physical or deadly force in self-defense still apply. Namely this couple has to demonstrate a reasonable fear that:

1. A person may, subject to the provisions of subsection 2 of this section, use physical force upon another person when and to the extent he or she reasonably believes such force to be necessary to defend himself or herself or a third person from what he or she reasonably believes to be the use or imminent use of unlawful force by such other person, unless:

(1) The actor was the initial aggressor;  except that in such case his or her use of force is nevertheless justifiable provided:

(a) He or she has withdrawn from the encounter and effectively communicated such withdrawal to such other person but the latter persists in continuing the incident by the use or threatened use of unlawful force;  or

(b) He or she is a law enforcement officer and as such is an aggressor pursuant to section 563.046 ;  or

(c) The aggressor is justified under some other provision of this chapter or other provision of law;

(2) Under the circumstances as the actor reasonably believes them to be, the person whom he or she seeks to protect would not be justified in using such protective force;

(3) The actor was attempting to commit, committing, or escaping after the commission of a forcible felony.

https://codes.findlaw.com/mo/title-x...t-563-031.html
That is NOT the Missouri law.
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Old 07-22-2020, 09:32 AM
 
19,721 posts, read 10,124,301 times
Reputation: 13089
Missouri recognizes the "castle doctrine" and allows residents to use force against intruders, without the duty to retreat, based on the notion that your home is your "castle." This legal doctrine assumes that if an invader disrupts the sanctity of your home, they intend to do you harm and therefore you should be able to repel their advances.
Missouri's law is more extensive than the law in other states because it permits property owners to use the amount of force reasonably perceived as necessary, including deadly force.
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Old 07-22-2020, 09:49 AM
 
Location: East Lansing, MI
28,353 posts, read 16,381,866 times
Reputation: 10467
Quote:
Originally Posted by Floorist View Post
That is NOT the Missouri law.

Uh, what?

Right at the top of the page I linked:

Missouri Revised Statutes Title XXXVIII. Crimes and Punishment; Peace Officers and Public Defenders § 563.031. Use of force in defense of persons
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Old 07-22-2020, 09:49 PM
 
Location: Arizona
13,258 posts, read 7,312,118 times
Reputation: 10098
Quote:
Originally Posted by Floorist View Post
Missouri recognizes the "castle doctrine" and allows residents to use force against intruders, without the duty to retreat, based on the notion that your home is your "castle." This legal doctrine assumes that if an invader disrupts the sanctity of your home, they intend to do you harm and therefore you should be able to repel their advances.
Missouri's law is more extensive than the law in other states because it permits property owners to use the amount of force reasonably perceived as necessary, including deadly force.
There has to be a reasonable perceived threat of bodily harm can't shoot someone for trespassing. You probably can get away with pointing a gun at them as we seen with this case can be charged. If your well connected have deep pockets nothing will happen, but working class guy could end differently. Different in every state why good idea to know your laws, and always take the most Conservative route. If you see someone breaking into a parked car call the police don't go running out there with your AR-15 any number of bad outcomes could end up from that.
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Old 07-23-2020, 05:46 AM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
89,026 posts, read 44,824,472 times
Reputation: 13712
Quote:
Originally Posted by kell490 View Post
There has to be a reasonable perceived threat of bodily harm can't shoot someone for trespassing. You probably can get away with pointing a gun at them as we seen with this case can be charged. If your well connected have deep pockets nothing will happen, but working class guy could end differently. Different in every state why good idea to know your laws, and always take the most Conservative route. If you see someone breaking into a parked car call the police don't go running out there with your AR-15 any number of bad outcomes could end up from that.
No one was shot. The couple was merely ready to protect themselves by using deadly force, if necessary. If the criminal mob was uncomfortable with encountering prepared homeowners, they shouldn't have committed criminal trespass.
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Old 07-23-2020, 10:53 AM
 
Location: Arizona
13,258 posts, read 7,312,118 times
Reputation: 10098
Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
No one was shot. The couple was merely ready to protect themselves by using deadly force, if necessary. If the criminal mob was uncomfortable with encountering prepared homeowners, they shouldn't have committed criminal trespass.
You keep saying that but they were charged with a crime because they are wealthy and can afford a defense the Governor has said he will pardon them nothing will become of it other then used for political propose.

If your like lot of people who make less then 50k a year can't afford 1000's of dollars in legal fees have no connection to the Governor for a pardon doing what they did is not a good idea.

It's a better idea to just leave the gun in a holster, or sling rifle over the back in front then you won't be charged with any crime spend 1000's on legal fees fighting in court.
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Old 07-23-2020, 11:22 AM
 
Location: East Lansing, MI
28,353 posts, read 16,381,866 times
Reputation: 10467
Quote:
Originally Posted by kell490 View Post
You keep saying that but they were charged with a crime because they are wealthy and can afford a defense the Governor has said he will pardon them nothing will become of it other then used for political propose.

If your like lot of people who make less then 50k a year can't afford 1000's of dollars in legal fees have no connection to the Governor for a pardon doing what they did is not a good idea.

It's a better idea to just leave the gun in a holster, or sling rifle over the back in front then you won't be charged with any crime spend 1000's on legal fees fighting in court.

"Brandishing" is illegal in MO. Period.

Was it justified due to a reasonable threat? Maybe. Is it null because the pistol was inoperable? Maybe.

That's why there is a legal system.
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Old 07-23-2020, 06:22 PM
 
Location: *
13,240 posts, read 4,925,181 times
Reputation: 3461
Quote:
Originally Posted by hooligan View Post
"Brandishing" is illegal in MO. Period.

Was it justified due to a reasonable threat? Maybe. Is it null because the pistol was inoperable? Maybe.

That's why there is a legal system.
Speaking of our legal system:

Over 65 Prosecutor Leaders Rally in Support of Circuit Attorney Kim Gardner and Use of Prosecutorial Discretion

Statement calls out personal attacks and attempts by federal and Missouri state officials to inappropriately influence decisions in local criminal case

Quote:
... These attacks stem from the charges filed against the McCloskeys on July 20, after a thorough investigation by local police. The defendants were each charged with one felony count of unlawful use of a weapon. Consistent with CA Gardner’s policy of reducing incarceration for low-level offenses, they were issued summonses and offered the opportunity to complete a diversion program which would have enabled the charges to be dismissed; that offer was refused. ...
https://fairandjustprosecution.org/w...on-Release.pdf

Full statement here, signed by current & former prosecutors:

Joint Statement Responding to Attacks on Circuit Attorney Kim Gardner And In Defense of Local Prosecutorial Discretion

https://fairandjustprosecution.org/w...ment-Final.pdf
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