Pride vs Protest: Christopher Culumbus (interstate, highway, Indiana, independence)

[SFBayBoomer]

Originally Posted by Curly Q. Bobalink

So if you cannot see honoring "bomb makers", you obviously would be against any kind of honorific to any servicemen, then? Generals on down to simple Sailors, like Doris Miller, a cook on the Arizona who shot down at least one Japanese plane at Pearl Harbor with a weapon he was not authorized to operate because he was a black man? A man, by the way, the U.S. Navy is planning to honor by naming a new Aircraft Carrier after?

Don't put words in my mouth that I did not say and did not imply!

Don't conflate soldiers/service-members (not servicemen, as they are not only men anymore) with bomb makers. I spoke only of bomb designers, and have personal experience with one of them, Dr. Edward Teller.

Soldiers put themselves in harm's way. Fermi and Teller created heinous weapons to be used on mass numbers of human beings.

[Curly Q. Bobalink]

Originally Posted by SFBayBoomer

Don't put words in my mouth that I did not say and did not imply!

Don't conflate soldiers/service-members (not servicemen, as they are not only men anymore) with bomb makers. I spoke only of bomb designers, and have personal experience with one of them, Dr. Edward Teller.

Soldiers put themselves in harm's way. Fermi and Teller created heinous weapons to be used on mass numbers of human beings.

Actually, I was asking the question, hence that little shepherd's hook with the period under it at the end of the sentence. And of course you are correct, albeit a bit anal, about women being warriors. I'm sure there is a statue of Boudica somewhere in modern-day England. I wonder how those of Italian descent feel about it? And man or woman, not every service-member deserves a statue, there's likely a Lt. Calley for every Admiral Nimitz.

When you stated you interviewed Teller, I assumed you were much older than I am, I had no idea he lived until 2003 (just looked that up). So if you do not think Teller deserves a chunk of pot metal outside a university somewhere, how about Einstein? Because without his theories, Teller likely wouldn't have gone nearly as far in his work. And without Newtonian physics, how would Einstein have worked in the realm of the theoretical? So there goes Isaac and probably Liebowitz. The question becomes, and is precisely why I chose Fermi as my example (in addition to the fact he had direct ties to Chicago and was Italian), was because he is considered a controversial figure. At what point do we not honor individuals who made great contributions to our understanding of the world, because they were flawed in some other way? It could be argued by some women's rights group, that statues of MLK should be taken down because he was an adulterer (and had some Marxist ties as well, if I remember correctly). Taken to the extreme, the only person we could create statues to would be Helen Keller (and even she would have made a lousy air-traffic controller). A contrarian could argue that Hitler loved dogs and children, and that Stalin had a cool moustache, hence statues of them should be allowed to exist. When taken on a "lifetime achievement" basis, Chairman Mao was responsible for more deaths than Hitler, yet he's still venerated in China, I believe. Heck, there are statues of Genghis Khan that exist somewhere in Asia, and he was what, responsible for the deaths of a large percentage of the population of the world at the time? I'm guessing he holds the "record".

By the way, those "heinous weapons" DID save hundreds of thousands of lives by preventing Operation Downfall, and I'm likely alive because of them (so I'm a little biased). What we do NOT know, is how many millions of lives the invention of nuclear weapons have prevented since the end of WWII because there has not been (at least so far), a WWIII in the past seventy five years. Obviously, that's subject to change, depending on how smart (or dumb) human beings are in the future. I've always told friends that "The end of humanity comes when the highest technology filters down to the lowest common denominator of humanity". In other words, when Iran gets The Bomb. Similar to when the depressed guy sitting at the corner bar, despondent at the fact his wife left him because he broke her arm last night, is handed the keys to the Starship Enterprise, which he promptly jumps into, takes off, and anti-matters the earth into a black hole.

Bottom line, at least in my opinion, it's not all black-and-white as to who deserves to be honored and who does not, it's a little more complicated than that. Fermi may have cheated at cards and kicked his dog for all I know, but I do know his work has prevented likely hundreds of millions of tons of carbon dioxide (don't forget the mercury) from entering our atmosphere, and if that's not worth a little bronze, what is?

Thanks for interviewing Teller, I'm glad someone was interested enough to get his take on his view of his life's work while he was in the Last Quarter, I'm sure it's an interesting article or video. I have a cousin-in-law who retied from Lawrence Livermore, Physicists can appear to be Strange Ducks on the outside, but crunch their celery just like everybody else.

[Master Jay]

I was wondering, despite it being an organized crime scenario, but I wonder: If the Chicago Outfit was still in it's existence under the Don, Tony Accardo, would this have happened in Little Italy?

Any thoughts??

[Curly Q. Bobalink]

Originally Posted by Master Jay

I was wondering, despite it being an organized crime scenario, but I wonder: If the Chicago Outfit was still in it's existence under the Don, Tony Accardo, would this have happened in Little Italy?

Any thoughts??

Tough to put into words without getting moderated, LOL. But Columbus is so last week for Chicago, anyway - there's already talk about toppling the statue of the Cop at the Haymarket Square Memorial.

Anybody in here have kids that span the age of the majority of the protesters? (20's or so). If so, what happened to these people? Did their parents eat too much popcorn while they were growing up, and having buttery hands, drop them on their collective heads? The youngest person I know is 31, and he laughs at these idiots for their collective brain damage. Is it just that after fulfilling their lifelong goals of being baristas and sandwich artists, normal life no longer holds any purpose, and they have collectively decided they have gained enough wisdom since graduating high school, they are now ready to remake the country? I would suggest some vacations are in order, maybe to eastern Europe, China, or the Philippines, in order to become more "worldly".

[Master Jay]

Curly Q. Bobalink, thank you for sharing. I don't want you to get moderated.... We'd have to protest THAT, then

I heard us Wisconsinites may be banned from coming down to Illinois????

I'll depend on all of you guys to keep me truly updated on what's going on!

[Vlajos]

Originally Posted by Curly Q. Bobalink

Tough to put into words without getting moderated, LOL. But Columbus is so last week for Chicago, anyway - there's already talk about toppling the statue of the Cop at the Haymarket Square Memorial.

Anybody in here have kids that span the age of the majority of the protesters? (20's or so). If so, what happened to these people? Did their parents eat too much popcorn while they were growing up, and having buttery hands, drop them on their collective heads? The youngest person I know is 31, and he laughs at these idiots for their collective brain damage. Is it just that after fulfilling their lifelong goals of being baristas and sandwich artists, normal life no longer holds any purpose, and they have collectively decided they have gained enough wisdom since graduating high school, they are now ready to remake the country? I would suggest some vacations are in order, maybe to eastern Europe, China, or the Philippines, in order to become more "worldly".

It's the same woke people that like Bernie Sanders. If they don't get their way they throw tantrums and riot

[Curly Q. Bobalink]

Originally Posted by Master Jay

Curly Q. Bobalink, thank you for sharing. I don't want you to get moderated.... We'd have to protest THAT, then

I heard us Wisconsinites may be banned from coming down to Illinois????

I'll depend on all of you guys to keep me truly updated on what's going on!

Yup, I heard that Wisconsinites have been added to those state residents that are supposed to quarantine before visiting Illinois. Not sure how that'll be enforced. MY BIL lives up there, and he sent me an email this morning, with the title "They got this backwards", since there are so few cases up where he's at (Green County). The way I understand it, WI has a 'positivity rate" that is increasing at a much faster rate than Illinois' and hence your being added to the list. Greater minds than mine figure this stuff out (I hope).

[Castlebar]

Originally Posted by Curly Q. Bobalink

Tough to put into words without getting moderated, LOL. But Columbus is so last week for Chicago, anyway - there's already talk about toppling the statue of the Cop at the Haymarket Square Memorial.

Anybody in here have kids that span the age of the majority of the protesters? (20's or so). If so, what happened to these people? Did their parents eat too much popcorn while they were growing up, and having buttery hands, drop them on their collective heads? The youngest person I know is 31, and he laughs at these idiots for their collective brain damage. Is it just that after fulfilling their lifelong goals of being baristas and sandwich artists, normal life no longer holds any purpose, and they have collectively decided they have gained enough wisdom since graduating high school, they are now ready to remake the country? I would suggest some vacations are in order, maybe to eastern Europe, China, or the Philippines, in order to become more "worldly".

Sadly, it includes “ adults” in their 30s as well.

Before becoming baristas and sandwich artists, these “woke” twits were indoctrinated in colleges by lefty profs in humanitarian, liberal arts, ethnic and gender studies departments.

Before becoming indoctrinated, these emotionally arrested, coddled, and spoiled brats and their steamed rolled parents bought into the Ponzi scheme that is the college depts listed above.

Remember hearing over the past 20 years or so that kids were not being told no, that everyone got a trophy, parents going on job interviews and generally meddling and controlling their kids lives well into adulthood?
Extending adolescence and the disappearing adult syndrome permeating our society and vulgar culture? Keeping kids on parents’ health insurance until 26 etc.

Well, the results are quite evident.

Tons of 35 year old “sandwich artists” (lol) out there as well...with 100K student loan debt and a degree that is, at best, an interesting conversation topic.

Perpetual adolescent and subsequent suicide victim Abbie Hoffman, a poster child of this adult-as-kids corruption, summed it up when he said “we ain’t ever gonna grow up.”

We’re seeing the expanded effects of this mantra in 2020.

[Sunbiz1]

Originally Posted by Curly Q. Bobalink

Tough to put into words without getting moderated, LOL. But Columbus is so last week for Chicago, anyway - there's already talk about toppling the statue of the Cop at the Haymarket Square Memorial.

Yet Thomas Jefferson remains on our currency, and nobody seems to notice; also Andrew Jackson.

[jfre81]

Originally Posted by garyjohnyang

I’m also not really buying into the “anti-Italian” take

Italians got their expansion franchise in the League of White Americans at least two generations ago.

I really don't care if Columbus has a statue here or not. He has nothing to do with the history of Chicago. The Vikings came closer to "discovering" Illinois than Columbus did, nearly five centuries earlier.