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They absolutely are handouts. There should be no such thing as a refundable tax credit. It's ridiculous that the IRS refunds more than what was paid. When they issue a $1000 refund, do you think they plucked it from a money tree? They got it from the people making $60K who paid $10K in taxes. Same with bonds. However noble the cause, they represent money *given* to one person that was collected from anopther person..
Nope, taxation is foundational to a functional society and market economy. It is fantasy land to imagine a world in which everyone received their “pre-tax” income.
The government is critical to the existence of the economy: Property rights are enforced by courts, money is issued by the government, the military “protects” us. There is no world in which “pre-tax” income could ever meaningfully belong to its recipients alone, because without taxes, there is no government, and government is necessary to create the roads, sewers, streetlights, courts, etc. that make obtaining the income possible.
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Originally Posted by oceangaia
As for being means tested, your thread even admits the end goal is programs that are designed to mostly benefit minorities. The fact that minorities are disproportionately poor isn't some coincidental artifact but the primary driver behind your ideas.
Disproportionately on a percentage basis yes, it would benefit African-Americans but when viewed in absolute numbers it would help more whites.
Last edited by Astral_Weeks; 07-25-2020 at 11:45 PM..
You paint too stark a choice when reality is less black and white and more gray.
A mixed economy is the effective combination of the public sector (or governmental power) and private markets with private markets providing much needed risk taking and entrepreneurship.
However, both capitalism and government power predated the mixed economy, but in the late 19th century, we first saw them joined in a way that led to broad prosperity. It emerged when the U.S. and other developed countries began using government to invest in public goods and in activities that have high positive externalities, such as education, and to regulate the economy in ways that limited negative externalities.
The mixed economy made us not just richer in terms of material wellbeing, but also vastly richer in terms of health and education. A graph of life expectancy would be essentially a flat line until the late 19th century. Then it shoots upward. In rich democracies, we saw more transformation of stature, health, and life expectancy over the course of the 20th century than we saw in all of prior human existence. That was because of the mixed market economy.
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Originally Posted by Rocko20
The Ben Carson and Colin Powell’s of the black community will be successful no matter what. And the black gang bangers will be a failure no matter what.
LMAO! So much for Malcom X and the power of personal transformation. You aren't American if you don't believe in second chances.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rocko20
Equal opportunity does not mean equal outcome.
The fact that the government could ever make things fair is an elaborate ruse to retain power over idiots who think the government can legislate you up the social ladder. Breaking news: they can’t.
This thread isn't arguing for precisely equal outcomes.
The economic advantages provided by wealth range from insuring consumption against disruptions to a household’s disposable income (such as surprise medical expenditures or unemployment spells) to enabling access to housing, good schools, and postsecondary education.
Baby bonds tied to training/education would be a boon to both the bond recipients and the broader economy. Investing in human capital is an essential role of the public sector.
Last edited by Astral_Weeks; 07-25-2020 at 11:47 PM..
This isn't a proposal for reparations or for producing precisely equal outcomes. This is a series of proposals that would go a long way to narrowing the persistent wealth gap that exists between Black & White Americans.
These proposals are mostly not race specific or targeted. Rather they are targeted or means tested to all U.S. citizens based on income which would disproportionately help Blacks but it would also help low income households from all backgrounds build wealth.
The median household wealth in the U.S. for Whites is roughly $170,000 vs. $17,000 for Blacks (2016 dollars).
That has to change. We can't look at ourselves as Americans and think that is ok. This isn't about tearing down one group to build up another. This is about building wealth for Black households (and others) which will not only helps Black households but makes our overall economy more productive.
1. Baby Bonds: The U.S. government would give all children below a certain income born in the U.S. with a $1,000 savings account. Each year, the government would automatically deposit up to another $2,000 into that account, depending on family income. People would not be able to dig into the funds until they hit 18, and the uses of the money would generally be limited to paying for college, vocational training, buying a house and saving for retirement. The U.S. Treasury Department would manage the accounts.
2. Expanded Earned Income Tax Credit (EITC): The EITC is a program is an existing refundable tax credit for low- to moderate-income working individuals and couples that boosts the paychecks for working people. This should be expanded/increased so their is more take home pay for those working at or near the bottom.
3. Increase Black Homeownership: There remains a large gap in homeownership rates between Blacks and Whites. Homeownership (and equity) is the ticket to the American middle class. The Urban Institute has a five point plan for increasing black homeownership.
4. Pass significant Health Care Reform based on the "Healthy Americans Act" which was legislation co-sponsored in 2009 by Ron Wyden (D) and Robert Bennett (R).
The Healthy Americans Act would transition away from employer-provided health insurance to having individuals/households choose their health care plan from state-approved private insurers. The act provides every American citizen (and legal resident) with a voucher to purchase a health plan providing a minimum set of care. The voucher or plan would be paid for on a sliding scale basis based on income. There would be no pre-existing conditions. Last but not least, by guaranteeing health insurance to all Americans the act would prevent households from having to go into bankruptcy due to a health crisis.
Where in the world did you get those numbers?
Rank Group Median household income (2016 US$)
1 Indian 131,746
2 White or non-Indian, non-Hispanic, non-Middle Eastern 85,349
3 Latino, Spanish Americans, or Hispanic 67,865
4 Middle Eastern 56,331
5 Native Hawaiian and Other Pacific Islander 50,987
6 East Asian 46,882
7 Native Americans and Alaska Native 39,719
8 Black or African American 30,557
You can't fix the wealth gap until you can fix the IQ gap. No one has been able to figure that out after decades of trying.
There are no measurable qualities in which Black and White people don't differ significantly. Black people have the worst credit rates and worst saving rates of any group. That's not something that should be ignored. We can't just throw money at the issue.
See my prior post. Data I presented is median net wealth, not income.
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Originally Posted by Loveshiscountry
You want to manipulate the free market in housing? How'd that work out last time slick?.
I would be all for the US to stop manipulating the housing market. That ain't going to happen in either of our lifetimes. There is a bi-partisan romance with homeownership across the political spectrum in the USA. Cogent arguments can be made for ending it but I highly doubt it will change significantly.
We have some many distortions built into the system already with things like the mortgage interest deduction (though this is less pronounced after the 2017 tax package). Not to mention the various levers of federal influence in the mortgage market, etc.
As Nobel laureate in Economics Edmund Phelps has said: “It used to be said that the business of America was business. Now the business of America is homeownership.”
There is NO QUICK FIX, the only way is to change thug culture to value education starting in the home. These Black kids need FATHERS in the home (20% of Black families have fathers at last count) but you wouldn't know it from BLM advocating to blow up the nuclear family. Parents need to read to their kids, take them to museums, foster curiosity, so they can build their education, get trained for better careers, and earn higher salaries
By reading to the kids, maybe they'll learn to speak proper understandable English (without the Ebonics). For a start.
And how about giving them some lists of other options on naming their kids? At some places where I worked (particularly my former law firm), an application or resume with a name starting in a Ka or K' (i.e. K'Neisha) went right in File 13. A smart qualified African American candidate with the name Diane would have gotten notice, an interview, and probably the job.
I had a black co-worker who was forbidden from answering the phone because her jargon was impossible to understand by customers.
Last edited by Mrs. Skeffington; 07-26-2020 at 02:44 AM..
Nope, taxation is foundational to a functional society and market economy. It is fantasy land to imagine a world in which everyone received their “pre-tax” income.
The government is critical to the existence of the economy: Property rights are enforced by courts, money is issued by the government, the military “protects” us. There is no world in which “pre-tax” income could ever meaningfully belong to its recipients alone, because without taxes, there is no government, and government is necessary to create the roads, sewers, streetlights, courts, etc. that make obtaining the income possible.
Disproportionately on a percentage basis yes, it would benefit African-Americans but when viewed in absolute numbers it would help more whites.
I have no issue with taxation and see it as the necessary evil. I have issue with our tax dollars going to support infrastructure in other countries, when our own is in desperate need.
I have issue with spending Over a trillion on a plane that doesn't even look good.
14 billion on a carrier that doesn't function.
Billions spent to buy tanks the army doesn't event want or need.
The waste in DC is incredible.
Be honest. Raising taxes only gives them the excuse to waste more.
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