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I don't see the changes in thought by the scientists as the reason people are fighting the mask and social distancing policies so much.
I see it more as a political statement.
The media hyped it according to Trump fans.
Fauci being discredited....all political.
But I want something clearly stated --- the deaths might have happened initially given the risk factor for so many...but right now July 26, the chaos in the south east and Arizona/Texas--- is most definitely Trump.
Those local leaders took his lead.
And Trump should wear a mask for leadership.
And come on Barron Trump's private school not opening but Trump threatening public schools with losing their funding if they don't open?
He IS the person who reduced red tape and therefore the time it will take to find it.
He should take credit.
Yup, Trump had to repeal lots of the Obama era FDA regulations, and rewrite how the CDC responds to pandemics.
I would have loved to be a fly on the wall in February or March, when the CDC told Trump
No - we cannot perform enough COVID-19 tests, because we have an FDA rule preventing us from doing that
No - we don’t have enough PPE in the stockpile, because we never restocked any of it after the SARS and H1N1 outbreak
No - we don’t have enough ventilators, we haven’t had enough ventilators, even though we were told about it almost two decades ago.
We used to think that the federal agencies had their **** together, and then we find out they were incompetent, complacent, and lethargic.
Now when we watch movies like Arrival, where the federal government flies in a helicopter to pick up the best and brightest civilian scientists and thinkers, it's all a joke.
The egos of the people in the CDC would never allow outside talent to upstage them. No matter how dire the threat to humanity is, all we will hear from are the career bureaucrats in these federal agencies. In fact, if experts in the civilian sector dare to disagree with the likes of Fauci, they are ridiculed and dismissed as kooks and frauds.
I don't see the changes in thought by the scientists as the reason people are fighting the mask and social distancing policies so much.
I see it more as a political statement.
The media hyped it according to Trump fans.
Fauci being discredited....all political.
But I want something clearly stated --- the deaths might have happened initially given the risk factor for so many...but right now July 26, the chaos in the south east and Arizona/Texas--- is most definitely Trump.
Those local leaders took his lead.
And Trump should wear a mask for leadership.
And come on Barron Trump's private school not opening but Trump threatening public schools with losing their funding if they don't open?
Oye......he sucks at the leadership thing
Fauci told us not to wear a mask, said the virus was transmitted by surface contact. Then he said only infected people needed to wear a mask. The CDC and Fauci have been all over the map. People are pissed off for being lied to, and a bit rebellious. It's wrong, but that is human nature.
Fauci told us we had to shut down our economy and stay at home, and we did. Following his lead, so did most of the world, and we had the highest death rates.
South Korea never shut everything down, and yet they are supposedly the model now.
Blame the governors for the mismanagement, not Trump. For example, Trump didn't order COVID patients into nursing homes, governors did.
Exactly. Ultra liberal California Has the highest number of cases. Huge number of protests praised by many city and state leaders help cause a spike in number of cases. Not to mention right in the middle of the pandemic the city of LA still allowed the LA Marathon to go on. Talk about mismanagement.
Let's a call a spade a spade: supporters of Trump are not going to say he's responsible; haters of Trump are going to say he is. That's the line in the sand. Which side do you stand?
I stand on the facts. The Trump-haters live in a biased version of history.
I don't think getting COVID is that big of a deal for most people (24 million to 96 million were already infected in the U.S. using the CDC's guestimate of the number of infected being 6 to 24 times higher than positive tests), but it is serious enough to warrant mitigation and ideally eradication. Canada, most large W. European countries, and particularity Japan, S. Korea and Taiwan were able to get in under control. It seems that the U.S. was lacking in the preparation, communication, and coordination departments. I think S. Korea especially deserves a bravo for having a strong contact tracing and testing regime early on and it's population more or less voluntarily social distancing and masking up.
The U.S., India, and Brazil have basically become incubators for the virus, and it's likely that we'll face some form of international travel restrictions through 2021. Someone on these forums said that it was justifiable to shoot and kill anyone who represented any sort of threat to their life, liberty, or property... does this mean that someone could shoot people who refuse to wear masks?
Fauci told us not to wear a mask, said the virus was transmitted by surface contact. Then he said only infected people needed to wear a mask. The CDC and Fauci have been all over the map. People are pissed off for being lied to, and a bit rebellious. It's wrong, but that is human nature.
Fauci told us we had to shut down our economy and stay at home, and we did. Following his lead, so did most of the world, and we had the highest death rates.
South Korea never shut everything down, and yet they are supposedly the model now.
We've been through the mask no mask discussion for months now.
Yes back in March they discouraged us -- general public from wearing masks. Truth came out -- because there was a severe shortaeg and they were more worried about the first responders, health care providers. So instead we 'quaraintined', social distanced.....and only had interaction when we HAD to.
Jump to May when places started to open up and they found the biggest jump in places like restaurants and bars. It was clear we all needed masks. That social distancing worked....that if you chose to be within six feet of someone a mask helped.
So the policy change.
It's not some giant conspiracy -- but common sense with changing knowledge on the virus and changing lifestyle.
You want to go to out in public and be within six feet -- wear a f'n mask.
South Korea was aggressive with testing and tracing -- we weren't. The residents of South Korea were tested and if positive adhered to the quarantining policies.
Testing was always important and the USA is still lagging in that regard.
I will say, initially I was shocked when our Governor McMasters shut down schools. There were not even 50 cases in the whole state. I was shocked.
Now we have thousands of cases and he is mandating schools opening up. It's pure chaos.
Exactly. Ultra liberal California Has the highest number of cases. Huge number of protests praised by many city and state leaders help cause a spike in number of cases. Not to mention right in the middle of the pandemic the city of LA still allowed the LA Marathon to go on. Talk about mismanagement.
And the irony is, the Democrats and the left blame Trump for George Floyd, and scream that it's systemic racism, even though the mayor, governor, police chief, AG in Minnesota are all Democrats. If the system is racist, why is it Trump or the Republicans fault if the system is controlled by the Democrats for decades???
They will blame Trump for the up tick in infections, when it's the same Democrats and leftists who are promoting and encouraging this mass protesting.
They blame Trump for what they are doing. It's insanity from the left.
It has become a political football. Yet, I am firmly in the "Trump is largely to blame" category.
Many of the reasons have been discussed.
Yes, President Trump 'banned' flights from China. Yet, such a ban did not register with many people. I think more people listened to Mr. Trump on television dismissing the virus, including his infamous '15 cases now, probably zero tomorrow'.
I will note that it has now been determined that the first case of COVID 19 was diagnosed on November 17, 2019, in China's Hubei province. The first case, outside of China, was of a man in France, December 27th. It was not then known, but the virus was already loose.
Yes, China was less than forthcoming in early January about the virus. Yes, WHO praised China (the thinking, as I understand it, was that the head of WHO believed that by praising the Chinese leader, the leader would then be more cooperative; sorta sounds like our President, doesn't it?).
Yet, we must recall that the United States had CDC staff in China, including in Beijing. Their job: if an outbreak occurs, they are to be on the scene with the Chinese scientist, looking over their shoulders and getting information, first hand, on the outbreak.
When Mr. Trump took office, he began to dismantle the CDC in China. The very American epidemiologist that was embedded in Beijing, and whom would have been on the scene in Wuhan, was fired by Mr. Trump in 2018. When the outbreak occurred, in December 2019, we were blinded.
But not totally. We still had our intelligence agencies, the very ones that Mr. Trump has so frequently lambasted. Said agencies warned Mr. Trump in early January about the novel coronavirus in Wuhan. Mr. Trump ignored them. Indeed, on January 24th, Mr. Trump went out of his way to praise China and its leader in a tweet:
"China has been working very hard to contain the Coronavirus. The United States greatly appreciates their efforts and transparency. It will all work out well. In particular, on behalf of the American People, I want to thank President Xi!"
Mr. Trump spent much of February downplaying the emerging virus, as well as continuing to praise the Chinese leader. His tweet from February 24th gives an indication of his focus:
"The Coronavirus is very much under control in the USA. We are in contact with everyone and all relevant countries. CDC & World Health have been working hard and very smart. Stock Market starting to look very good to me!"
Two days later, Mr. Trump establishes the the coronavirus task force, led by Mr. Pence. Good right? Well, at the press conference he again downplayed the virus:
"And again, when you have 15 people, and the 15 within a couple of days is going to be down to close to zero, that’s a pretty good job we’ve done."
And on February 27th:
"It’s going to disappear. One day it’s like a miracle, it will disappear."
On February 28th, at a rally, Mr. Trump accused the Democrats of politicizing the virus:
"The Democrats are politicizing the coronavirus… One of my people came up to me and said “Mr. President, they tried to beat you on Russia, Russia, Russia, that didn’t work out too well. They couldn’t do it. They tried the impeachment hoax that was on a perfect conversation. They tried anything, they tried it over and over, they’ve been doing it since you got in… And this is their new hoax.”
That's enough for now. Mr. Trump did not 'create' the virus (nor did Dr. Fauci, by the way), but his tepid response to it, even now, is on him. Look at the polls. A lot of people agree.
I will add that it was on February 22nd that I was alarmed enough by the spreading novel virus that I went to Sam's Club and stocked up on stuff. Three days later I warned my sisters, who responded that it would not be serious. They later changed their mind.
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