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Originally Posted by fasterplease909
1. Why is it so terrible when a police officer acts with excessive force yet we have seen rioters kill people, including at least one child, start fires, assault people and have zero consideration for the safety of others or the consequences of their violent actions? If cops are being called out for excessive and careless force, why aren't the rioters and the people calling for change holding THEMSELVES to the standards they would like to see of the police?
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You have 2 questions here. Lets see. We expect our police to act better then criminals? SHOCKING I tell you. And BTW no consequences? BWAHAHAHHAa. Cops RARELY face consequences for the things they do. Absurd. The fact that you can't comprehend this means you haven't been paying attention AT ALL.
Ah more nonsense. LOTS of people including those on the left are calling for those who have committed violence to be prosecuted. The thing is...the VAST majority of folks are peacefully protesting. But its getting worse now that more and more folks get beaten by the cops or the federal goons here in Portland.
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2. Why is it a bad thing to stereotype an entire group based on the actions of a few bad apples? Like for example, it's wrong to look at TV footage of black people looting and assume that all black people are criminals yet we have A.C.A.B. (All Cops Are Bad) as one of the major slogans of BLM and this protest movement. How do you defend stereotyping an entire group based on the actions of a few in this case?
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Because simply put the police are being labeled that way because groups of them in some cities ARE all bad. I have said this before, policing is local. And the Portland cops are legendary. They've co-ordinated with proud boys, including letting them know none of them with warrants would be arrested. Ever seen a LRAD used on folks? Portland police have used them on its citizens.
The ACAB comes about because for many people they've seen the police abuse people....and get away with it. And really ironic to me? You're upset about a current wrong being done (rioting or injuring others or property), but are apparently fine with the wrong that the police have done. So...in your world if person A hits person B for years....and then person B does anything, he is in the wrong. And guess what? HE IS. a crime is a crime. But you really shouldn't have ignored the first issue. If that had been dealt with person B would never have hit back. But BOTH parties have done something wrong.
But you also miss something important. Because we're talking about 1 person vs one person. Lets get some better perspective.
A cop ( and later federal goons who did far worse) enters in a room with 100 people because someone broke a table. He has beaten or harassed 5 of them in the past. Everyone gets upset because a week ago a cop had choked someone to death. The 5 folks he beat? 3of them are yelling about it-which there is no law against because we have the first amendment. 95 observers are pissed about it and yelling for it to stop. And one guy who got hit, maybe years ago, is trying to hit the cop, and the other is breaking stuff. 4 other cops walk in. 1 guy is attacking the cop. 98 people are protesting saying to stop, and another is breaking stuff.
Now in a rational way what happens next is 3 cops go after the one being violent, and 2 go after the guy breaking stuff. And people say they want cops to quit beating folks, but yeah the guy who attacked the cops should go to jail, and the same for the guy breaking stuff. But there has been a ton of unjustified beatings, and deaths. And it needs to stop.
So the folks are saying hey, the cops are doing a bad job. Lets try having a couple less cops, and more folks who can do things that dont require someone to be violent with others. Maybe train those cops better as well so they have better judgements on who gets a beatdown.
Maybe get us to half the wrong beatings, Let the cops being insanely well armed and armored folks when dealing with situations that would involve them. And hire a bunch of folks who are able to handle some of the non violent issues.
I live here. So these are my opinions having seen policing in the area. And I honestly really like the cops in my current city.
Ive seen Portland cops escalate situations insanely fast in what looked VERY intentional. Guy who wasn't a threat gets tasered for not obeying fast enough when the cop just suddenly grabbed him and started yelling stop resisting. They tasered him before he could have reasonably comprehended what was occurring.
In a neighboring city? I've seen cops show up, and take a really tense situation with people screaming at each other. And turn it into something where everyone was listening to them as they asked quiet questions to determine what was going on, and if any crimes had occurred. It was a really good insightful bit of psychology. And all I could think of is how this would occur in Portland.
Growing up I warned my children to not talk to the Portland police, and to obey them without question, even if the cops were doing something wrong. Because simply put, Portland police have had some issues for a long time. I dont know if its a training issue, a culture issue, or both. One of my GF's had a couple hundred bucks of stuff from her porch. Had the person captured on her ring cam. (BTW the newer ring doorbells have some amazing video quality compared to earlier models. Which were okayish.) And the lady was VERY distinctive. I'm 95% sure the cops would know her by face. The response? She would never call the police over a couple hundred bucks, she just couldn't handle that they might cause her a issue in some way, or maybe just not like her. And also what they would do to someone over such a trivial amount. I think she is a much kinder person then I am. But think about how bad things are when someone steals over 200 bucks from you, and you are more worried about the cops and what they might do then the loss of the money.
So here is what has gone down. Our government shoots one of the protesters in the face with a less lethal round, causing bleeding in the brain. Why? Hes a 26 yr old holding a speaker above his head standing 20 feet away and not moving. The only possible reason they shot him, is that right before they had tossed tear gas right at him. He kicks it and moves it a couple inches, reaches down and underhands it about 6 feet away. Stands up, and BAM. Right in the face.
Another guy says "hey what you are doing is wrong". Hes a retired military vet, and the cops hit him 3-4 times with a baton like using a bat, breaking two of his bones. He doesn't even raise his arm when they break bones in his hand. He just takes it. He only raises his arm when they spray him in the face with pepper spray. He turns and walks away. Bones broken, and sprayed in the face with pepper spray. His response is to walk away, and give them the finger. He asked a question. He was ZERO threat.
They then throw tear gas into the room causing folks to flee. Folks who do not run fast enough get shot with non lethals, and beaten. And this occurs night after night, as more and more people are hurt, just because they expressed a opinion. Most think the folks who commit criminal acts should be prosecuted. Trumps gone on and on about how many folks they arrested. Last number I saw was him talking about dozens.....while the number was exactly 1. But when you are tear gassing people, shooting them with less lethals-which BTW are occasionally lethal. I'm amazed more folks havent been killed by them given the figures I have seen long before this insanity began.
As people are walking home later, heavily armed people grab them and pull them into a unmarked van.
So does that help you understand why folks are treating them as a group given what they have experienced?
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3. Why is it so terrible when federal troops get called into to attempt to restore law and order but you did not protest nearly as loudly (or at all) when we have had week after week of burning cities, illegal autonomous zones, illegal road and freeway closures, assaults, killings, and general mayhem? Did you think the type of people who riot, burn and kill would just eventually stop on their own? How did you expect it to end?
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I can speak about Portland. Because these protests in Portland were dying down after the local cops weren't allowed to use the LRAD or tear gas on its citizens without a reasonable fear of getting injured. They were allowed to use the LRAD as a ultra strong loudspeaker. Which oddly enough is pretty useful. But we all know what it can do too. But things were really calming. The reports from outside say 26 million in damages....which oddly enough is taken from a report that also included in it lost income from covid closures. This report obviously was not about damage from rioters. People show a picture of the cops union building if I recall looking like its totally on fire. Its obvious from the photo that that building was a write off. Meanwhile in reality....a flare was left there, and it was quickly put out. Some windows broken. Ironically I suspect that is possibly the most expensive damage weirdly enough depending on the glass. Definitely some damage, but not whats being represented.
The cops did some dumb things at first. The one I found fascinating was trying to use a fence. Fences quit literally just give folks a target. And doesn't allow you to go arrest those who are committing crimes. They removed it. So things were calming down when a more balanced interaction started. Cops were still being jerks though. Then...well you can read up above.
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If you are a person who defends the rioters or you think it's no big deal or just some right wing exaggeration, I'd love to see you honestly answer the three questions above.
All of things I mentioned are FACTS and are not in dispute.
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Actually no. You lack context of the area, and what has been going on.
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Fact #1 :The rioters have acted without any concern whatsoever for the safety of innocents.
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Yeah rioters are violent people. They need to be arrested. You know, when you go out without a fence you can do that. And there is literally a manual on how to deal with these sort of things. Now remember, 95% are just wanting their protest to be seen.
And I have seen people who want this to be seen and heard so much that they show up to protest in which for them has risks that are very high. Covid would very likely be fatal for them. They feel so strongly about this that they show up to have their voices heard. They are peaceful. They got tear gassed twice before running out of saline and having to retreat after the second incident. Their personal decision to do so represents some incredible bravery. She is non violent. Just like most protestors. Recently its been getting worse though. The federal agents actions as described above represent some truly next level why are we not impeach this one man wrecker of our democracy. So since its escalating its truly obvious that the federal agents goal is not about helping. They are there to escalate the situation, so the real question is, why has Trumps government acted without any concern for the innocent?
Most of those folks getting hurt are simply trying to be heard. You can arrest those breaking the law. You shouldn't be gassing people who are almost entirely peaceful punishing a group of people for the actions of a few. LOL. Another ironic thing is that would be a war crime if we did it to another country.
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Fact #2 :A.C.A.B is a thing.
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Yeah when you tear gas a vastly innocent group because you should be arresting those who throw things at you, or commit other crimes. You might just be grouped with the group of you thats tear gassing folks who just want their voices heard because of the actions of the few.
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Fact #3 :We've had (and have) endless weeks of riots, violence and destruction with no end in sight.
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Yup. And since the feds are escalating as are the protestors in response to the shocking behavior of our government towards us. Because honestly Trump is trying the tough man act with a strong law and order message out. the escalation of it caused by violence escalated by his very decisions. A political ad campaign that so far hasn't gained in traction. Fun fact, this is LITERALLY the guide to how Putin gained control, and has maintained control of Russia. Barring a change what occurs next can go some kinda scary ways. And Trumps actions are neither well considered, or wise at the minimum.
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Have at it 
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LOL. You did ask.
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