Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
 
Old 07-28-2020, 03:51 PM
 
Location: West Coast of Europe
25,915 posts, read 24,587,922 times
Reputation: 9708

Advertisements

I wonder who betrays those people, signing education contracts in their name for money

 
Old 07-28-2020, 04:38 PM
 
13,161 posts, read 21,703,998 times
Reputation: 14033
Quote:
Originally Posted by blahblahyoutoo View Post
pretty sure that was sarcasm.
Surprisingly, no. Read his thread. https://www.city-data.com/forum/poli...communism.html
Quote:
if their citizens don't care, why should we?
They do care, a lot. Why do you think the Chinese are moving here in droves?
 
Old 07-28-2020, 05:59 PM
 
Location: Suburb of Chicago
31,848 posts, read 17,474,664 times
Reputation: 29383
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuling
The Chinese do talk about politics as well and some are critical of the president. That's not a big deal.
But most Chinese are actually content with their country's government. I know it is hard to believe in the West where in most countries half the population would like to topple their elected leaders.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MPowering1 View Post
That's a blatant lie. You must be in China being paid to spread propaganda.

Even those living in Hong Kong will no longer be able to say anything negative about the government.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuling View Post
That is not the case. One can criticize the government in a constructive, civilized way, but the Chinese, both in HK and elsewhere, are not allowed to engage in separatist movements, treason etc. I don't know a single country where that is allowed. Spain has sentenced Catalonian separatist politicians to many years in prison. And people in Catalonia are also obliged to learn Spanish in addition to their own language. It is only natural that Uighurs have to learn Mandarin since they live in China. They are free to speak their own language as well, of course.
Not quite true.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/13/w...-security.html
Quote:
Now they must contend with the new, far-reaching national security law imposed by the central Chinese government that makes speaking out against the authorities possibly criminal.
https://www.nationalreview.com/2020/...ng-good-fight/
Quote:
After the oppression bill became law for Hong Kongers, a chilling effect spread throughout the commercial hub: Pro-democracy activists quieted down, faced with the once-unthinkable reality of being arrested for standing peacefully in public places and voicing their desire for freedom. Shopkeepers were compelled to remove customers’ protest artwork and pro-democracy sticky notes from their shops lest the government punish them for endorsing the democracy camp’s message. Protesters deleted their social-media accounts, as speech that had been legal just days previously was now a potential crime against the government. Members of the press in Hong Kong began to feel as though they could not write freely and objectively without punitive consequences; the New York Times, over the next year, will relocate a third of its staff to Seoul.
 
Old 07-28-2020, 07:35 PM
 
29,946 posts, read 18,510,612 times
Reputation: 20701
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuling View Post
I know, being against China is the standard these days. But not in my case. The more I investigate and read about the accusations against China, the more I notice that 95% of it is just one big staged smear campaign.

It doesn't matter who gets elected in November, Biden is a criminal just like Trump.

Take the Uighur accusations for instance. According to Reuters, that started the media campaign, China holds a million Uighurs in concentration camps, quoting the UN. From there the claim was repeated ad nausea by the NYT, WP, etc., like parrots.

However, the UN has not claimed anything like that. In fact, only a single woman named Gay McDougall, who is anything but an expert on China, made such claims in her role as the only American on the Committee on the Elimination of Racial Discrimination, which is separate from the UN, though. She has not provided any evidence to back up her claim, just mentioned "credible reports".

Those came for instance from the Network of Chinese Human Rights Defenders (CHRD), an anti-Beijing organization based in Washington, that receives hundreds of thousands of dollars from Washington's regime-change body National Endowment for Democracy (NED), basically an imperialist terrorist organization acting under the pretext of spreading democracy. The CHRD is registered at the same address as Human Rights Watch, an organization known for its proximity to US politicians.

Leading members of CHRD are Su Xiaokang, Teng Biao, Perry Link, Renee Xia (the founder). They are hard-core anti-Chinese radicals/dissidents that support people like Liu Xiaobo, another radical that makes racist comments against the Chinese, supports colonialism and wars.

Another source of those Uighur accusations are stories by Radio Free Asia, an American propaganda station.

Yet another source are the World Uighur Congress and the International Uyghur Human Rights and Democracy Foundation, both organizations are funded by the aforementioned National Endowment for Democracy, that tries to topple governments Washington doesn't like.


Finally, there is a weird German guy called Adrian Zenz, who emigrated to the US. He is a radical evangelist Christian who goes around claiming god chose him to fight China. Zenz came up with the absurd figure of a million incarcerated Uighurs and his fabrications have been the foundation for anti-Chinese US laws.


https://thegrayzone.com/2018/08/23/u...ighur-muslims/






The same happens when one investigates the corona accusations, the HK accusations, the Huawei accusations, etc. People should not just read headlines and swallow what they see on TV, but investigate.

I am convinced that, while not perfect of course, China is actually a much more decent, benevolent country than the US. And most of what China does is merely to defend itself.


We already knew you (as well as all other libs) supported China.


Liberals, as they are enemies of the US, support all of the other enemies of the US.
 
Old 07-28-2020, 07:53 PM
 
3,771 posts, read 1,509,153 times
Reputation: 2213
Quote:
Originally Posted by kdog View Post
Surprisingly, no. Read his thread. https://www.city-data.com/forum/poli...communism.html


They do care, a lot. Why do you think the Chinese are moving here in droves?
new account, possibly satire, possibly trolling. who knows?


there are many reasons for moving here, but we don't know the exact motivations for each person. better economic opportunities is probably high on the list, family that's already here, better air quality, better schools, are all probably higher on the list than uncensored internet. if they really wanted to get around the great firewall, they can always use a VPN.

and their citizens actually rate the govt quite high.
https://news.harvard.edu/gazette/sto...-satisfaction/
 
Old 07-28-2020, 08:40 PM
 
77,786 posts, read 59,928,695 times
Reputation: 49170
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuling View Post
There is a not so fine line between criticizing and insulting.
Calling your president or king a clown is not OK in many countries. Do that in Saudi-Arabia for instance and see what happens.
Lol....you start out talking about how you have all the same freedoms and it's all a big hoax and you can do what you want.

Then we point out reality and you start using equivalencies to a monarchy to justify disappearing someone for insulting the leader?

Just be honest up front instead of claiming you have all these great rights and freedoms when it's only if you don't cross any lines like the imaginary one between criticism and insult.

Hate to break it to you but when you put that much power in someones hands, eventually someone gets in the role that will really harm the country....and criticism of them? Oh my dear, that's not criticism...that's insulting the leader.

There is not a country or kingdom or whatever in the history of the world where concentrating that much power ends well. Eventually you get a Stalin or Mao or someone that is incompetent etc. and well....removing them would be pretty hard with control of the media and the ability to just arrest people for "insults".

If you cannot bear the introspection, then look at Russia. Putin is an extremely strong and by any independent measure a fairly effective leader...who has consolidated power mightily. What happens when he's gone if the next guy turns out to be bad? How does that work out for Russia?
 
Old 07-29-2020, 12:00 AM
 
13,161 posts, read 21,703,998 times
Reputation: 14033
Quote:
Originally Posted by blahblahyoutoo View Post
if they really wanted to get around the great firewall, they can always use a VPN.
Sure, if they don't mind getting their computers confiscated and facing jail time. https://www.travelchinacheaper.com/i...a-vpn-in-china
 
Old 07-29-2020, 12:08 AM
 
5,462 posts, read 3,007,154 times
Reputation: 3271
Quote:
Originally Posted by hawkeye2009 View Post
We already knew you (as well as all other libs) supported China.


Liberals, as they are enemies of the US, support all of the other enemies of the US.
The problem with you ( not you, just who bash liberals) is you think whatever fed to you is true. Or label the others who have opposing viewpoints as liberals. Are you not open to other view points at all?? You definitely wouldn't have travelled to China and just post hear say information on whats given to you.

Once again, if China was authoritarian or communists or Marxists, they wouldn't have made such progress. Of course they don't get a gold medal for freedom and certainly they don't have freedom as in America, nor they are as bad as Saudi Arabia or Iran.


In most developing Asian countries, they are more collectivist and there is greater government control than they have here. Thats also more of a cultural thing. Even India banned Tik Tok and many other Chinese apps recently. They have also locked people and restricted freedom of movement in whole of the country.

And you give pathetic reasons like they are oppressive, third world, human rights violatiors etc which are mere talking points . Do you really care about their sufferings?? No. You can say those things and feel superior about yourself.

Again, assessing things and providing a different POV doesnt mean supporting it.
 
Old 07-29-2020, 12:35 AM
 
8,879 posts, read 11,664,610 times
Reputation: 10787
How the CCP fights the world on social media -- their 50 cent army.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=beOMIIMf7iA
 
Old 07-29-2020, 10:55 AM
 
Location: West Coast of Europe
25,915 posts, read 24,587,922 times
Reputation: 9708
Most people in HK are in favor of the new law, but the West doesn't care. It only cares about the small percentage of loud radicals.
In fact, the handover agreement already asked for such a law on national security to be introduced. If Beijing made a mistake, it is that they didn't implement such a law much earlier, as it should have been.
Macau got almost the same national security law in 2009, and it works fine there. Macau, which used to be a Portuguese colony, has displayed a very different attitude towards Beijing, not hostile like parts of HK. And Macau is doing fine, it is one of the best places on Earth to live.
HK should go and learn from Macau.




Quote:
Originally Posted by hawkeye2009 View Post
We already knew you (as well as all other libs) supported China.


Liberals, as they are enemies of the US, support all of the other enemies of the US.
In terms of US politics, yes, I am definitely an enemy of the US and on China's side. The world needs other blocs, ideally Europe will soon become an independent bloc of its own.




Quote:
Originally Posted by Mathguy View Post
Lol....you start out talking about how you have all the same freedoms and it's all a big hoax and you can do what you want.

Then we point out reality and you start using equivalencies to a monarchy to justify disappearing someone for insulting the leader?

Just be honest up front instead of claiming you have all these great rights and freedoms when it's only if you don't cross any lines like the imaginary one between criticism and insult.

Hate to break it to you but when you put that much power in someones hands, eventually someone gets in the role that will really harm the country....and criticism of them? Oh my dear, that's not criticism...that's insulting the leader.

There is not a country or kingdom or whatever in the history of the world where concentrating that much power ends well. Eventually you get a Stalin or Mao or someone that is incompetent etc. and well....removing them would be pretty hard with control of the media and the ability to just arrest people for "insults".

If you cannot bear the introspection, then look at Russia. Putin is an extremely strong and by any independent measure a fairly effective leader...who has consolidated power mightily. What happens when he's gone if the next guy turns out to be bad? How does that work out for Russia?
That's not what I said at all. People in HK and China can not do what they want, and that is a good thing. People need to be set limits, otherwise they turn into antisocial pricks, like so many people in the US.

Americans always make one big mistake. They have certain views and erroneously think that others share or have to share those views. But that is not the case at all. Regarding your freedoms, many Americans for instance often cite the freedom to have and wear guns. While that is important to Americans, it means nothing in other parts of the world. You can't say the Germans or Chinese don't have that freedom/right, when they don't even want it in the first place. US views are just that, US views, but not any kind of standard.
That's also why some countries have abandoned the UN human rights declaration or part of it. Those human rights, which are arbitrary obviously, violated their cultures, so they made their own, different human rights.

China is very similar to a kingdom or monarchy or empire. So, yes, it definitely makes sense to compare it to rogue US buddies like Saudi-Arabia.

The line between criticism and insult is not imaginary at all. Courts in the West also have to decide about that difference every day.

Calling the president a naked clown is considered an insult in many countries.

Russia is very different from China. Putin is a one-man show basically, his party is tiny, like parties in other European countries, very little citizen involvement. Unlike the communist party in China, with which 200 to 300 million people are associated and which is present on all levels and there for every citizen.
Politically, I think China is a better country than Russia. Personally (and that is my subjective view) I also think the Chinese people are much nicer than the Russians.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Closed Thread


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top