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It's up to each state when it comes to handling COVID. You know darn well that if Trump tried to act like a dictator and tell each state what to do, you and your ilk would be screaming about that.
What do you want him to do about the riots? He sent the Feds to Portland and you and your ilk are still screaming about that.
All you have is complaints. Admit it --- nothing Trump does will ever make you happy.
I love my country and I know that a Biden win would be disastrous. Get off your high horse. Who are you to say who loves this country and who doesn't?
And yet you live in a red state and won't move out due to inertia. Oh, the irony!
No, once again you're all out WRONG! I wouldn't be complaining if Trump had a plan to stop the virus nationwide, preferably endorsed by public health experts who Trump reluctantly listens to when he does. Why I'm supposed to scream about Trump sending Feds to Portland? That is Portland's business to worry and scream about.
I don't feel so out of place from living in a red state. My county, my town, clear down to my precinct voted yes for legalizing medical marijuana and more Medicaid, while the majority of the counties voted no on both.
Last edited by StillwaterTownie; 07-30-2020 at 01:35 AM..
OK. Over and over I see people here comment on Portland. And its quite clear they are eating up propaganda that doesn't represent the reality on the ground. I live in a nearby city, and spend most weekends at a place in Portland. Trump and Barr are trying to validate the use of force against people who express their views as allowed by the first amendment.
1. The VAST majority of people present are non violent protesters. They are exercising their first amendment rights. The actions of those who are violent have been used to justify a obscene amount of brutality. Right wing folks like to zoom in on the violent people, while ignoring the vast majority of folks peacefully protesting. Locals keep pointing out just how tiny of a area this is occurring at. The VAST majority of whats occurring happens in a truly tiny area of the city. No Portland is not burning down. No buildings have been destroyed. But for over a month our own police used a LRAD on people. They deployed a LOT of tear gas. Courts finally had to order them to stop targeting legal observers, and news reporters. The city ordered them to stop using tear gas, and to not use the LRAD in a offensive mode. Believe it or not when they stopped doing these things, the protests went down.
2. So when the DHS deployed these folks, there is a couple things I want folks to keep in mind. This operation was planned before the pandemic occurred AS PER Bill Barr today. How do they justify it? Well they claimed over a dozen acts of graffiti, and about $5,000 dollars in damages to federal property. What was the excuse going to be back before Covid I wonder? The deployment of these agents over the period of time claimed will cost 6 million dollars. At the time the feds were deployed, the crowd sizes were under 200 people. Literally thousands of people are now out there. Theres over a dozen different lawsuits now going on about all of this. And the federal agents have injured a ton of people. The vast majority of which, and let me stress this, are trying to exercise their first amendment rights.
3. Portland does not want them here. No one has asked them to be here. And they've caused this to go from a couple hundred people peacefully protesting...to thousands protesting, and a increasingly escalating situation. The amount of damages done by these troops to people, and to our democracy is simply insane. As a "creating law and order" attempt it has done the opposite.
4. Theres been a ton of folks talking about the tens of millions in damages done here by protestors. Thats from a report where 26 million in damages is discussed...its a report however that thats about damages that include economic damages from Covid. Its not even remotely connected to reality. There IS damage, dont get me wrong. But its almost all within the tiny area, and is far far far less then people are claiming.
5. So like the local police the federal agents immediately started targeting medical assistance personnel who unlike the federal agents are VERY clearly marked (many of whom work at the hospitals these folks would be sent to if injured during their normal day jobs), observers who are also very clearly marked, and clearly marked reporters. They're taking a ton of pain.
6. the federal agents have hit multiple people in the face with less then lethal weapons. This is absolutely not what you are supposed to do. And people have been incredibly badly hurt. So far it appears that the folks hit in the face were all peaceful protestors exercising their right to protest.
7. People have been grabbed by military dressed personnel, and shoved into a vehicle that was unmarked. Now its apparent that if people grab you like this, shoving you into a unmarked vehicle dressed as military, and place you in a locked room you cannot leave, that you are under arrest. Thats a requirement in order to lock someone in like this. When the person asked for her attorney the feds let her go. no charges. This is illegal. You cannot arrest someone without probable cause. Their excuse was she was standing near someone they observed using a laser. They can go arrest that person, you cannot arrest those near them unless they have done something. Thats not alleged by the DHS. They claim they are pre-emptively arresting people. Also illegal.
8. Oregon has sued to stop the feds. Some with success-they were recently told that just like the Portland police they could no longer target news people, or observers. They have repeatedly done so, and now are going to have to go back to court once again. Ignoring the law. Again, just like in so many of these other points. They are operating in a unlawful manner. But the only major loss so far was Oregon being told by a judge that they did not have standing.....to sue to protect their citizens. Yeah. Think about that. So yesterday multiple victims of this behavior sued the feds with the help of the ACLU.
9. So whats it like now? Well with the police escalating things people began trying to protect themselves. But when the feds arrived they turned that tiny area of Portland into utter mess.
10. The actions by the federal government are both brutalizing, and unlawful. Ignoring people first amendment rights damages our country very fabric. Yes, its being done to those you may or may not like. But remember this, defending peoples rights means that you also need to defend it for those you disagree with, or you will eventually try to exercise those rights, and find that they are no longer there. If allowed to stand, we will eventually fail as a Democracy. If a president did something like just taking peoples guns and dealing with the justification later (which is something Trump has stated in the past) you too might want to protest. And the local anarchists could get you tear gassed and shot with non lethal...by simply showing up and being a little violent. you know...like apparently graffiti.
11. Last night "someone" pointed out a bag to Portland police. they posted the contents on their twitter feed. 2 canning jars with no liquid in them, but rags sticking out the top. Problem? Canning jars are about the worst way to do this, you very likely wont break them. and for them to be at all operative they probably should have added a liquid to them. More importantly though? There were clips from a rifle in the bag, they had red paint on them to make them look more grungy. Problem? The paint was still wet. It dripped on the plastic they set it on. Second problem? No one at the protest has been seen with a rifle that would take that clip other then the feds, and Portland police. AND...oddly enough protestors DID use paint.....on a Fed. Oddly it appears to be the exact same color of paint that can be seen in photos on a federal agent.
The bottom line? You're being fed a line of nonsense. Portland hasn't burned any buildings down-the closest we get I think is a flare used that caused minor damage to the police association. And no, the fireworks used are not going to light the concrete building on fire. 90% of those showing up to protest these days are there because of the actions of the federal government. The area where this occurred is only a few blocks in size. The vast majority of the damage currently being done is caused by the federal government, and is mostly medical bills of those they shoot less lethals at, broken bones, and other injuries. There are some common sense questions you should ask yourself. Is it right to remove others right to protest due to a few peoples actions? Would you call this a success knowing that the cost of the federal deployment is in the millions...over 5K in damages. And that its turned a 200 people or less protest area into a thousands of people protesting. And if these thousands of people were rioting, how long would those 114 people the feds deployed actually survive without using weapons?
This is not the type of thing our government should be doing. In actual Democracies they should not be done. And the propaganda out there about a city Ive lived in for years before moving to a adjacent city amazes me. I know many of you believe that Portland has burned buildings down. That the protests are full of rioters. That the police are hurting people doing bad things. They arent. They're hurting people trying to protest, they're hurting complete innocents. The damage done by them is beyond what the civilian criminals have done. BTW The folks rioting or being violent? They deserve to be in jail. But so do the other side of this. The federal agents are acting in a unlawful manner. And if you cheer it on it may become the new normal. Meaning that our right to protest will simply be gone.
Please explain how the part is leftist drivel which goes, "The folks rioting or being violent? They deserve to be in jail." Do people on the right think they should have been shot dead with real bullets?
No, once again you're all out WRONG! I wouldn't be complaining if Trump had a plan to stop the virus nationwide, preferably endorsed by public health experts who Trump reluctantly listens to when he does. Why I'm supposed to scream about Trump sending Feds to Portland? That is Portland's business to worry and scream about.
I don't feel so out of place from living in a red state. My county, my town, clear down to my precinct voted yes for legalizing medical marijuana and more Medicaid, while the majority of the counties voted no on both.
No, I'm not wrong.
How could anyone come up with a "nationwide" plan to deal with COVID? Again, it's up to each state to formulate their own plan. It's not a one size fits all. Each governor is responsible for dealing with it in his/her state. Yet again, if Trump tried to dictate what each state should do, you would be whining about that and calling him a dictator. This topic has been discussed in this forum on and on ad nauseum. Resurrect one of the many threads about it and tell everybody what you would have done, armchair quarterback.
First, you say Trump hasn't done anything about all the rioting/looting/vandalism. Then when he rightly sends in the Feds to deal with the federal courthouse, you now whine and say it's all up to Portland. The feds have every right to defend US government property. As I said, no matter what Trump does, you are going to scream about it.
NO WAY! You have got be kidding or are being sarcastic! Just look at what just over 3 years of Trump brought us will you? Riots and looting in the streets. An out of control coronavirus. In short, just one word: chaos!
I guess, TECHNICALLY, Trump did bring us to this. By winning the election, he brought about the panic and hatred from the left.
It was evidenced in the marches after his victory. Then when his economy started roaring back from Obama's disastrous terms, and jobs were becoming plentiful, they had to put a stop to that.
Cue the response to a virus that has crippled this country's businesses. It's no surprise that the states that have the most draconian shutdowns are led by Dems. But they weren't done yet.
Then their candidate started to implode, and they had to step it up a notch. Next up - riots and terrorism disguised as "protests". It's no surprise here as well that the cities seeing the riots are led by Dems.
The Dems have grossly underestimated how sick of their garbage the average citizen is. They live primarily in their progressive bubble, where they all think, speak and act the same, and shut out any opposing viewpoints. These games may backfire on them, however. With the economy continued to stumble, more and more hard working, tax paying citizens will have the time and motivation to fight back.
I fear for the next 3 months. It will get worse before it gets better. But luckily, it will disappear miraculously on November 4. When we'll have to prepare for 4 more years of Dem-led attacks on this country.
If the feds would leave they wouldn't have to worry about little lasers possibly blinding them.
As much as I hate the terrorism going on in these cities, I do agree that the feds should leave. Pull out completely, and leave the destruction to continue as it had long before the feds moved in.
Any destruction of taxpayer funded federal property will be paid by the city that failed to protect that property. Any calls for help from the cities will go ignored. Any calls after the fact for money to rebuild will also go ignored.
OK. Over and over I see people here comment on Portland. And its quite clear they are eating up propaganda that doesn't represent the reality on the ground. I live in a nearby city, and spend most weekends at a place in Portland. Trump and Barr are trying to validate the use of force against people who express their views as allowed by the first amendment.
1. The VAST majority of people present are non violent protesters. They are exercising their first amendment rights. The actions of those who are violent have been used to justify a obscene amount of brutality. Right wing folks like to zoom in on the violent people, while ignoring the vast majority of folks peacefully protesting. Locals keep pointing out just how tiny of a area this is occurring at. The VAST majority of whats occurring happens in a truly tiny area of the city. No Portland is not burning down. No buildings have been destroyed. But for over a month our own police used a LRAD on people. They deployed a LOT of tear gas. Courts finally had to order them to stop targeting legal observers, and news reporters. The city ordered them to stop using tear gas, and to not use the LRAD in a offensive mode. Believe it or not when they stopped doing these things, the protests went down.
2. So when the DHS deployed these folks, there is a couple things I want folks to keep in mind. This operation was planned before the pandemic occurred AS PER Bill Barr today. How do they justify it? Well they claimed over a dozen acts of graffiti, and about $5,000 dollars in damages to federal property. What was the excuse going to be back before Covid I wonder? The deployment of these agents over the period of time claimed will cost 6 million dollars. At the time the feds were deployed, the crowd sizes were under 200 people. Literally thousands of people are now out there. Theres over a dozen different lawsuits now going on about all of this. And the federal agents have injured a ton of people. The vast majority of which, and let me stress this, are trying to exercise their first amendment rights.
3. Portland does not want them here. No one has asked them to be here. And they've caused this to go from a couple hundred people peacefully protesting...to thousands protesting, and a increasingly escalating situation. The amount of damages done by these troops to people, and to our democracy is simply insane. As a "creating law and order" attempt it has done the opposite.
4. Theres been a ton of folks talking about the tens of millions in damages done here by protestors. Thats from a report where 26 million in damages is discussed...its a report however that thats about damages that include economic damages from Covid. Its not even remotely connected to reality. There IS damage, dont get me wrong. But its almost all within the tiny area, and is far far far less then people are claiming.
5. So like the local police the federal agents immediately started targeting medical assistance personnel who unlike the federal agents are VERY clearly marked (many of whom work at the hospitals these folks would be sent to if injured during their normal day jobs), observers who are also very clearly marked, and clearly marked reporters. They're taking a ton of pain.
6. the federal agents have hit multiple people in the face with less then lethal weapons. This is absolutely not what you are supposed to do. And people have been incredibly badly hurt. So far it appears that the folks hit in the face were all peaceful protestors exercising their right to protest.
7. People have been grabbed by military dressed personnel, and shoved into a vehicle that was unmarked. Now its apparent that if people grab you like this, shoving you into a unmarked vehicle dressed as military, and place you in a locked room you cannot leave, that you are under arrest. Thats a requirement in order to lock someone in like this. When the person asked for her attorney the feds let her go. no charges. This is illegal. You cannot arrest someone without probable cause. Their excuse was she was standing near someone they observed using a laser. They can go arrest that person, you cannot arrest those near them unless they have done something. Thats not alleged by the DHS. They claim they are pre-emptively arresting people. Also illegal.
8. Oregon has sued to stop the feds. Some with success-they were recently told that just like the Portland police they could no longer target news people, or observers. They have repeatedly done so, and now are going to have to go back to court once again. Ignoring the law. Again, just like in so many of these other points. They are operating in a unlawful manner. But the only major loss so far was Oregon being told by a judge that they did not have standing.....to sue to protect their citizens. Yeah. Think about that. So yesterday multiple victims of this behavior sued the feds with the help of the ACLU.
9. So whats it like now? Well with the police escalating things people began trying to protect themselves. But when the feds arrived they turned that tiny area of Portland into utter mess.
10. The actions by the federal government are both brutalizing, and unlawful. Ignoring people first amendment rights damages our country very fabric. Yes, its being done to those you may or may not like. But remember this, defending peoples rights means that you also need to defend it for those you disagree with, or you will eventually try to exercise those rights, and find that they are no longer there. If allowed to stand, we will eventually fail as a Democracy. If a president did something like just taking peoples guns and dealing with the justification later (which is something Trump has stated in the past) you too might want to protest. And the local anarchists could get you tear gassed and shot with non lethal...by simply showing up and being a little violent. you know...like apparently graffiti.
11. Last night "someone" pointed out a bag to Portland police. they posted the contents on their twitter feed. 2 canning jars with no liquid in them, but rags sticking out the top. Problem? Canning jars are about the worst way to do this, you very likely wont break them. and for them to be at all operative they probably should have added a liquid to them. More importantly though? There were clips from a rifle in the bag, they had red paint on them to make them look more grungy. Problem? The paint was still wet. It dripped on the plastic they set it on. Second problem? No one at the protest has been seen with a rifle that would take that clip other then the feds, and Portland police. AND...oddly enough protestors DID use paint.....on a Fed. Oddly it appears to be the exact same color of paint that can be seen in photos on a federal agent.
The bottom line? You're being fed a line of nonsense. Portland hasn't burned any buildings down-the closest we get I think is a flare used that caused minor damage to the police association. And no, the fireworks used are not going to light the concrete building on fire. 90% of those showing up to protest these days are there because of the actions of the federal government. The area where this occurred is only a few blocks in size. The vast majority of the damage currently being done is caused by the federal government, and is mostly medical bills of those they shoot less lethals at, broken bones, and other injuries. There are some common sense questions you should ask yourself. Is it right to remove others right to protest due to a few peoples actions? Would you call this a success knowing that the cost of the federal deployment is in the millions...over 5K in damages. And that its turned a 200 people or less protest area into a thousands of people protesting. And if these thousands of people were rioting, how long would those 114 people the feds deployed actually survive without using weapons?
This is not the type of thing our government should be doing. In actual Democracies they should not be done. And the propaganda out there about a city Ive lived in for years before moving to a adjacent city amazes me. I know many of you believe that Portland has burned buildings down. That the protests are full of rioters. That the police are hurting people doing bad things. They arent. They're hurting people trying to protest, they're hurting complete innocents. The damage done by them is beyond what the civilian criminals have done. BTW The folks rioting or being violent? They deserve to be in jail. But so do the other side of this. The federal agents are acting in a unlawful manner. And if you cheer it on it may become the new normal. Meaning that our right to protest will simply be gone.
We have a couple friends who live in the Portland area who are telling us the same thing.
They are stunned that any American would support unidentified militia in military gear snatching people off the street, tear gassing peaceful protesters, targeting observers, media, and medical personnel, ...
Thanks but (1) that’s not Portland; (2) it’s not a federal building; and (3) the video & article you provided only gives only one perspective, since it’s a Blue Lives Matter blog. The video doesn’t depict who did what and when. It’s only a few seconds long.
We have a couple friends who live in the Portland area who are telling us the same thing.
They are stunned that any American would support unidentified militia in military gear snatching people off the street, tear gassing peaceful protesters, targeting observers, media, and medical personnel, ...
Propaganda.
Portland took it to court. Provided 2 examples of these unidentified cops detaining suspects, admitted one did in fact have identification badges and it was shown in court that so did the other.
The vehicle was unidentified, which is legal and hundreds of police stations around the country have such vehicles.
I am stunned that violent liberals can attack federal property for 39 straight days without Trump lifting a finger. When he finally sends in federal agents to protect the property as local law enforcement couldn't you shriek "orange man bad."
Leftists have the mentality of brown shirts.
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