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Except what isn't what? I was responding to a video posted by Du Ma. The video showed a lot of graffiti on the building and a lot of garbage on the sidewalk.
Right....that is all the damage and destruction that has been done. Got it.
Someone here had a good suggestion: go to the Portland forum on CD and see what residents say. So I read this thread that started with
Portlanders, is it really as bad as the media portrays?
Here are some responses:
"It's just one or two blocks around the Federal building at night. Which is an area where there aren't many shops or restaurants anyway. The rest of the city is just normal."
"Went to Portland yesterday, looked like an average day in the city, looked at some guitars and walked along the waterfront, got a bite to eat and drove home. Media isn't interested in anything that isn't in the realm of sensationalism."
"No, Portland is not that bad. It's pretty safe and depending on where you live, you won't get any hints to rioting. I live only a mile from downtown and 1.5 miles or so from the waterfront. Unless I see the news, I never have an inkling of what is going on. I can say though, that downtown is a **** show. Not because of rioters, but because of the homeless"
"You don't live in Portland and probably have never been to Portland, so how can you judge the safety of the city? Yes, there have been demonstrations and riots, but it really doesn't affect the average person."
Could the posters that state that there are mostly peaceful protests in Portland and across the country be right ? Check this video out, the talking heads seem to agree with them. Maybe us on the side of law and order just don't really understand what the definition of "peaceful protesting " is.
Could the posters that state that there are mostly peaceful protests in Portland and across the country be right ? Check this video out, the talking heads seem to agree with them. Maybe us on the side of law and order just don't really understand what the definition of "peaceful protesting " is.
People protesting against a tyrannical government is exercising their 1st and 2nd Amendment.
Government descending on the protesters is government committing tyranny against its own people.
THIS is exactly the scene our founding fathers had in mind when they created the 2nd Amendment. Where are all the gun nuts when it's 2nd Amendment time?
Oh yeah, cheering on the tyrannical government.
.
Didn't know the 2nd amendment included the right to burn buildings, the right to hurl molotov cocktails, etc..
People protesting against a tyrannical government is exercising their 1st and 2nd Amendment.
Government descending on the protesters is government committing tyranny against its own people.
THIS is exactly the scene our founding fathers had in mind when they created the 2nd Amendment. Where are all the gun nuts when it's 2nd Amendment time?
Oh yeah, cheering on the tyrannical government.
.
Government descending on the protesters who are attempting to destroy federal property is our government following the rule of law.
Personally I think they should protect only federal interests there and let the nutjobs burn the rest of the whole fricken city down. With all of them in it. Elections have consequences.
OP is just another Useful Idiot. Probably another ex-Californicator who moved up there after the late 80s earthquakes in NCA.
Please post the video of rioters blowing an eight-inch hole in the federal building in Portland, as you claim.
Thanks in advance.
The rioters in Seattle blasted a hole through a wall in a police precinct. Maybe the poster got Portland violence confused with Seattle violence. It IS hard to keep up with all the violence, oh, I'm sorry...all the 'peaceful protesters exercising their First Amendment rights.'
"At least one person breached the fencing and threw an explosive device that left an eight-inch hole in the side of the precinct. "
Someone here had a good suggestion: go to the Portland forum on CD and see what residents say. So I read this thread that started with
Portlanders, is it really as bad as the media portrays?
Here are some responses:
"It's just one or two blocks around the Federal building at night. Which is an area where there aren't many shops or restaurants anyway. The rest of the city is just normal."
"Went to Portland yesterday, looked like an average day in the city, looked at some guitars and walked along the waterfront, got a bite to eat and drove home. Media isn't interested in anything that isn't in the realm of sensationalism."
"No, Portland is not that bad. It's pretty safe and depending on where you live, you won't get any hints to rioting. I live only a mile from downtown and 1.5 miles or so from the waterfront. Unless I see the news, I never have an inkling of what is going on. I can say though, that downtown is a **** show. Not because of rioters, but because of the homeless"
"You don't live in Portland and probably have never been to Portland, so how can you judge the safety of the city? Yes, there have been demonstrations and riots, but it really doesn't affect the average person."
Like I stated in an earlier post. There are three sides to a story. I believe the riots and unrest are isolated to a few block area. Let's be honest, the dolts are on foot, it's not like they are going to walk miles and miles of city sprawl. I was in CA a week after the riots in '91 and saw that the rioting was in an isolated area. I don't think anyone here is trying to say it's the whole city. In that isolated area though, it is a mess. There is just too much photographic and video proof to deny it.
As far as these people that you quoted, they are rational people that aren't going out looking to get in trouble and hope to get some video footage to try and go viral. Like most mature adults, they are going to try and avoid conflict.
OK. Over and over I see people here comment on Portland. And its quite clear they are eating up propaganda that doesn't represent the reality on the ground. I live in a nearby city, and spend most weekends at a place in Portland. Trump and Barr are trying to validate the use of force against people who express their views as allowed by the first amendment.
1. The VAST majority of people present are non violent protesters. They are exercising their first amendment rights. The actions of those who are violent have been used to justify a obscene amount of brutality. Right wing folks like to zoom in on the violent people, while ignoring the vast majority of folks peacefully protesting. Locals keep pointing out just how tiny of a area this is occurring at. The VAST majority of whats occurring happens in a truly tiny area of the city. No Portland is not burning down. No buildings have been destroyed. But for over a month our own police used a LRAD on people. They deployed a LOT of tear gas. Courts finally had to order them to stop targeting legal observers, and news reporters. The city ordered them to stop using tear gas, and to not use the LRAD in a offensive mode. Believe it or not when they stopped doing these things, the protests went down.
2. So when the DHS deployed these folks, there is a couple things I want folks to keep in mind. This operation was planned before the pandemic occurred AS PER Bill Barr today. How do they justify it? Well they claimed over a dozen acts of graffiti, and about $5,000 dollars in damages to federal property. What was the excuse going to be back before Covid I wonder? The deployment of these agents over the period of time claimed will cost 6 million dollars. At the time the feds were deployed, the crowd sizes were under 200 people. Literally thousands of people are now out there. Theres over a dozen different lawsuits now going on about all of this. And the federal agents have injured a ton of people. The vast majority of which, and let me stress this, are trying to exercise their first amendment rights.
3. Portland does not want them here. No one has asked them to be here. And they've caused this to go from a couple hundred people peacefully protesting...to thousands protesting, and a increasingly escalating situation. The amount of damages done by these troops to people, and to our democracy is simply insane. As a "creating law and order" attempt it has done the opposite.
4. Theres been a ton of folks talking about the tens of millions in damages done here by protestors. Thats from a report where 26 million in damages is discussed...its a report however that thats about damages that include economic damages from Covid. Its not even remotely connected to reality. There IS damage, dont get me wrong. But its almost all within the tiny area, and is far far far less then people are claiming.
5. So like the local police the federal agents immediately started targeting medical assistance personnel who unlike the federal agents are VERY clearly marked (many of whom work at the hospitals these folks would be sent to if injured during their normal day jobs), observers who are also very clearly marked, and clearly marked reporters. They're taking a ton of pain.
6. the federal agents have hit multiple people in the face with less then lethal weapons. This is absolutely not what you are supposed to do. And people have been incredibly badly hurt. So far it appears that the folks hit in the face were all peaceful protestors exercising their right to protest.
7. People have been grabbed by military dressed personnel, and shoved into a vehicle that was unmarked. Now its apparent that if people grab you like this, shoving you into a unmarked vehicle dressed as military, and place you in a locked room you cannot leave, that you are under arrest. Thats a requirement in order to lock someone in like this. When the person asked for her attorney the feds let her go. no charges. This is illegal. You cannot arrest someone without probable cause. Their excuse was she was standing near someone they observed using a laser. They can go arrest that person, you cannot arrest those near them unless they have done something. Thats not alleged by the DHS. They claim they are pre-emptively arresting people. Also illegal.
8. Oregon has sued to stop the feds. Some with success-they were recently told that just like the Portland police they could no longer target news people, or observers. They have repeatedly done so, and now are going to have to go back to court once again. Ignoring the law. Again, just like in so many of these other points. They are operating in a unlawful manner. But the only major loss so far was Oregon being told by a judge that they did not have standing.....to sue to protect their citizens. Yeah. Think about that. So yesterday multiple victims of this behavior sued the feds with the help of the ACLU.
9. So whats it like now? Well with the police escalating things people began trying to protect themselves. But when the feds arrived they turned that tiny area of Portland into utter mess.
10. The actions by the federal government are both brutalizing, and unlawful. Ignoring people first amendment rights damages our country very fabric. Yes, its being done to those you may or may not like. But remember this, defending peoples rights means that you also need to defend it for those you disagree with, or you will eventually try to exercise those rights, and find that they are no longer there. If allowed to stand, we will eventually fail as a Democracy. If a president did something like just taking peoples guns and dealing with the justification later (which is something Trump has stated in the past) you too might want to protest. And the local anarchists could get you tear gassed and shot with non lethal...by simply showing up and being a little violent. you know...like apparently graffiti.
11. Last night "someone" pointed out a bag to Portland police. they posted the contents on their twitter feed. 2 canning jars with no liquid in them, but rags sticking out the top. Problem? Canning jars are about the worst way to do this, you very likely wont break them. and for them to be at all operative they probably should have added a liquid to them. More importantly though? There were clips from a rifle in the bag, they had red paint on them to make them look more grungy. Problem? The paint was still wet. It dripped on the plastic they set it on. Second problem? No one at the protest has been seen with a rifle that would take that clip other then the feds, and Portland police. AND...oddly enough protestors DID use paint.....on a Fed. Oddly it appears to be the exact same color of paint that can be seen in photos on a federal agent.
The bottom line? You're being fed a line of nonsense. Portland hasn't burned any buildings down-the closest we get I think is a flare used that caused minor damage to the police association. And no, the fireworks used are not going to light the concrete building on fire. 90% of those showing up to protest these days are there because of the actions of the federal government. The area where this occurred is only a few blocks in size. The vast majority of the damage currently being done is caused by the federal government, and is mostly medical bills of those they shoot less lethals at, broken bones, and other injuries. There are some common sense questions you should ask yourself. Is it right to remove others right to protest due to a few peoples actions? Would you call this a success knowing that the cost of the federal deployment is in the millions...over 5K in damages. And that its turned a 200 people or less protest area into a thousands of people protesting. And if these thousands of people were rioting, how long would those 114 people the feds deployed actually survive without using weapons?
This is not the type of thing our government should be doing. In actual Democracies they should not be done. And the propaganda out there about a city Ive lived in for years before moving to a adjacent city amazes me. I know many of you believe that Portland has burned buildings down. That the protests are full of rioters. That the police are hurting people doing bad things. They arent. They're hurting people trying to protest, they're hurting complete innocents. The damage done by them is beyond what the civilian criminals have done. BTW The folks rioting or being violent? They deserve to be in jail. But so do the other side of this. The federal agents are acting in a unlawful manner. And if you cheer it on it may become the new normal. Meaning that our right to protest will simply be gone.
well ...
I'm sure a portion of what you took all that time to type is true. However....
It seems like all reasonable people differentiate between legal protest and unlawful rioting.
I think most people realize it's a very specific area of Portland, and not throughout the city. The peaceful protestors DID cover a wider area Saturday (?) afternoon before marching to the Federal building though. Conversely, you should make clear that Federal officers are not "occupying" Portland, ranging far and wide and exerting government control to the populace.
As to "this was planned pre-COVID and Barr admitted it yesterday", I'm afraid you have to tell us when on the hearing video he says this. I'll watch.
Lastly - while there's just too much in your post to counter all those that require factual debunking - the idea of Legal Observers, the Press, and Medics being targeted (may as well throw your Moms & Vets in there too). If I have to, I can find you the images of people "disguised" as Medics and Press participating in the unlawful part. They've been posted already numerous times, and I know you've been on this general topic.
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