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Old 08-05-2020, 03:16 PM
 
Location: Howard County, Maryland
16,555 posts, read 10,607,780 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Redshadowz View Post
Japan had already sent envoys to surrender to the United States, but they wanted something more like an armistice not an unconditional surrender.
Which just goes to show how astonishingly delusional the Japanese leadership was by August 1945. They were in absolutely no position to demand anything from the United States. The only choice they had was to surrender or be annihilated. If we had wanted to, we could have paraded Emperor Hirohito through the streets in chains and then hung him from the highest lamp post. We didn't, of course, and it's a very good thing too, or else we would have engendered the everlasting hatred of every single Japanese man, woman, and child. But the fact is that we could have done this, if we had so desired; and there wasn't a single thing they could have done about it.

 
Old 08-05-2020, 03:18 PM
 
Location: Howard County, Maryland
16,555 posts, read 10,607,780 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roboteer View Post
Three days later, the second atomic bomb used in warfare was flown to its primary target of Kokura, Japan.
Kokura was spared from conventional bombing because it was reserved for an atomic attack. It was the secondary target on the first mission, but the skies were clear over the primary target of Hiroshima. Then, it was the primary target of the second mission, but overcast conditions forced the mission to divert to the alternate target of Nagasaki.

So, yeah, Kokura is about the luckiest city on the face of the earth.
 
Old 08-05-2020, 03:38 PM
 
Location: Midwest City, Oklahoma
14,848 posts, read 8,202,687 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bus man View Post
Which just goes to show how astonishingly delusional the Japanese leadership was by August 1945. They were in absolutely no position to demand anything from the United States. The only choice they had was to surrender or be annihilated. If we had wanted to, we could have paraded Emperor Hirohito through the streets in chains and then hung him from the highest lamp post. We didn't, of course, and it's a very good thing too, or else we would have engendered the everlasting hatred of every single Japanese man, woman, and child. But the fact is that we could have done this, if we had so desired; and there wasn't a single thing they could have done about it.
What is your point?

My point was, the Japanese hoped that by stalling they might get a more favorable agreement from the United States, who might believe the "cost" of invasion was too high. But once the Soviets entered the war, stalling would mean Stalin, and the occupation of Japan by the Red Army. Suddenly unconditional surrender to the United States sounded pretty good.

Basically, it wasn't the nukes that ended WWII, it was Stalin. The firebombing of Japanese cities had already done as much damage as the nukes.
 
Old 08-05-2020, 04:00 PM
 
2,264 posts, read 970,896 times
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Deliberately targeting civilians is a good plan if you win because it's very effective. If you lose though expect to be hung as a terrorist or war criminal.
 
Old 08-05-2020, 04:08 PM
 
Location: Knoxville, TN
5,818 posts, read 2,666,851 times
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Here we go!

Raise your hand if you hate America!

Google Unit 731.

Japan snuck-attacked us at PH, broke the rules of war.

They got what they deserved.
 
Old 08-05-2020, 04:13 PM
 
Location: Northridge/Porter Ranch, Calif.
24,508 posts, read 33,295,278 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ClaraC View Post
Goodness you've gilded that lily!

It kind of had to be done, but we certainly did Japan no favors by dropping the atom bomb on them twice.

The horrors of that bomb were not "for their own good" like distasteful medicine.
Japan certainly did no favors for the U.S. when they bombed Pearl Harbor and killed 2,400.
 
Old 08-05-2020, 04:22 PM
 
Location: Knoxville, TN
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fleet View Post
Japan certainly did no favors for the U.S. when they bombed Pearl Harbor and killed 2,400.
Right. And at that time we didn't even want to be involved with the war, we practiced isolationism.
 
Old 08-05-2020, 04:36 PM
bu2
 
24,070 posts, read 14,863,435 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roboteer View Post
73 years ago today, on August 5, 1945, the first atomic bomb used in war was dropped on Hiroshima, Japan. (In Japan it was August 6, since they are across the International Date Line from us.)

Three days later, the second atomic bomb used in warfare was flown to its primary target of Kokura, Japan. They found the city obscured by clouds and smoke, and so flew to the secondary target of Nagasaki instead and dropped the bomb there.

Shortly afterward, Japan realized they had no way to stop the Americans from dropping bomb after bomb, wiping out city after city until the Japanese islands became uninhabitable. It also helped that Russia declared war on Japan that day. Japan surrendered, and WWII was over.

Japan didn't know at the time, that those were the only two complete atomic bombs the Americans had been able to produce at that time (plus one more set off in July as a test in New Mexico). They could eventually produce more of the needed fissile material, but it would have taken months or years, so the Americans kept quiet.

The Army estimated that those two bombs, which killed approx. 150,000 Japanese, saved the lives of between 500,000 and 1 million Americans who would no longer have to invade the Japanese home islands to force a surrender, plus saving a million or more Japanese who would have defended their homes to the death.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atomic...a_and_Nagasaki
That is false. They didn't have another bomb ready, but it would have been weeks, not "months or years."
 
Old 08-05-2020, 04:37 PM
 
Location: Japan
15,292 posts, read 7,753,799 times
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Quote:
The Army estimated that those two bombs, which killed approx. 150,000 Japanese, saved the lives of between 500,000 and 1 million Americans who would no longer have to invade the Japanese home islands to force a surrender, plus saving a million or more Japanese who would have defended their homes to the death.
This is trotted out every year. Again, no, there was no force compelling the allies to invade Japan at a cost of 1 million lives. Given that Japan was contained and all but defeated, sacrificing a million in an invasion would have been foolish. The bombs simply forced a quick surrender, which was advantageous strategically. They were a way to win and go home. Let's leave it at that, and drop the false moral posturing.
 
Old 08-05-2020, 04:39 PM
bu2
 
24,070 posts, read 14,863,435 times
Reputation: 12904
Quote:
Originally Posted by rjshae View Post
The nuclear attack may be seen as an extension of LeMay's firebombing tactics against Japanese cities. 1943 estimates showed a half million Japanese would be killed, which turned out to be fairly accurate. Many of the cities struck were equally as devastated as Hiroshima. All told, it was a pretty horrific campaign.
Around 100,000 were killed in a Tokyo firebombing. There are estimates of up to 500,000 killed in the Dresden firebombing.

The casualties were not as high in Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Its just that it only took a single bomb.
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