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Re: bold: the 'Lost Cause' narrative is pseudo-history, based on mythologies, & with no evidence to support.
Slaver States v. Free States & their disagreements began at the Constitution Convention & continued right on up to & throughout the war. Here's just some of the evidence:
A review of the Congressional Record of the 36th Congress reveals more than 300 proposals in regard to negotiations, some of these are Amendments to the United States Constitution, all are designed to avert military conflict. (President Buchanon was the 1st to propose.)
'US Constitution & Secession' is a recent book by Dwight Pitcaithley. His book focuses on analyzing the many amendments proposed during this time frame, all designed to avert military conflict.
Basically he breaks down 350 different topics in the proposed 67 amendments. Slavery expanded in the territories is the largest topic cited. The Slaver State position was that Government should protect slavery because slaves are property. 90% of the amendments proposed were about protecting slavery. 2 out of the 350 discussed tariffs. 5 were logical exit strategies for secession. One described having 4 Presidents, 1 each for North, South, East & West.
Other significant issues discussed:
* Return of fugitives slaves
* Protecting slavery in the District of Columbia
* Slaves were taken from owners when they went to certain states (Virginia sues NY over this)
* Dred Scott decision
* Secession issues & reorganizing federal government
* Jefferson Davis proposed nationalizing slavery (slaves as protected property)
The Corwin amendment was approved by Senate (& previously approved by the House); on Inauguration Day it was ratified by 5 states.
* The Slaver States seceded to protect slavery & the notion of white supremacy.
* Southern states were railing against the Northern states, its people, abolitionists, & eventually Lincoln.
* In his analysis of the proposed Amendments: the Slaver States were willing to trade State authority to protect slavery for Federal authority to protect slavery. (In other words, it was about property rights & NOT States' rights. In other other words, they had an extremely unhealthy obsession about owning people as property, beyond all reason.)
So, exactly what did I state that was incorrect? They did vote, did they not? There was no law against leaving the US, correct? Those were the only facts I provided, the rest was just my opinion.
Nope, reparations should only be paid for those who were slaves, and I do not think any one is still alive that was.
Interesting. So I am curious, where do you think that money that was owed to those slaves should go? For instance, if your father was owed 500K in back wages from Walmart, where should that money go? Or does Walmart get to keep his wages?
So if my grandfather say sold secrets to the Nazi's or gave away his platoon position in Vietnam i would be justified in honoring him even though he turned his back on his country?
Not the same thing.
If you're going to have what you call a free country. You can't have freedom one way and not the other way. It's either total freedom (within reasonable limits) or none at all.
Well, they did not "rebel" against, they voted to break away, their break away was about as democratic and peaceful as it can get. I really cannot view people who voted to break away from a country, when no law stated they cannot do so, as "traitors". They did not want to overthrow the US, they wanted away from the US, that is a stark difference.
As for the statues and such, depends when and in what context. Those that were built as a big "middle finger" seems a bit odd to preserve, even construct in the first place, versus one on some battlefield or something, or one that was actually built during the War or immediately after.
I do think having US military bases named after CSA generals as being very strange, I cannot wrap my head around that one.
Your post is extremely well written. The bold. WE must keep in mind that those generals were once Union Generals. Many were considered heroes before the civil war. There was also a different mindset back then. We too often judge by today's ethics or code of conduct, when it was a different belief system back then.
God, State , Country was how many saw it. They felt that their loyalty to state was a priority over loyalty to the Union. Think about how Armies were recognized. The Army of the Potomac. The 54th Massachusetts, etc.
Every state had their own. It was more like today's National Guard. People like to pass judgement based upon hindsight and a completely different code of conduct.
There were traitors. There were spies. Most of the Northern Generals did not see their counterparts as traitors.
If you're going to have what you call a free country. You can't have freedom one way and not the other way. It's either total freedom (within reasonable limits) or none at all.
Treason is treason. It is the same thing. Unless you are arguing that treasonous activity can hold a place of honor, because we have a free country?
So, exactly what did I state that was incorrect? They did vote, did they not? There was no law against leaving the US, correct? Those were the only facts I provided, the rest was just my opinion.
I was only referring to the bolded part of your post; the rest is more or less on the agree spectrum.
Re: leaving the US? The evidence there is demonstrated by a review of their Constitution. Here's a side-by-side comparison of both:
THE CONSTITUTION OF THE CONFEDERATE STATES OF AMERICA
Besides the evidence encoded in their Constitution, neo Confederates in the present day continue to despise & vilify the Union of States that is the United States of America today. They seemingly prefer division.
Their "reasoning"?
The Union of States instituted a progressive income tax. The Confederacy did the same.
President Lincoln suspended habeas corpus. So did Jefferson Davis.
The Union of States resorted to a draft. So did the Confederacy.
I cannot for the life of me understand why people feel the need to defend the confederacy so much.
These are people who broke away and actively rebelled against the union. The tried to break apart the United States and yet Trump and a large chunk of the GOP want to preserve their legacy as some kind of heroism.
they are TRAITORS to the USA plain and simple.
Why do we need a statue in a traitors name, schools and streets named after them?
People say tearing down the status erases history but does it? We don't need a monument to Osama Bin Laden to remember 9/11 do we? Do we need a statue of Benedict Arnold? Lets have a statue honoring the legacy of King George. Ya know they one we rebelled against for independence.
So someone explain, why should the confederacy be honor like AMERICAN heroes?
The 'long story short' version answer, imho, is that they never should have been.
The little bit longer explanation of why they were, & continue to be, imho, is because of the peculiarities & idiosyncratic nature of our Country & its peoples.
We have our strengths, & we have our weaknesses, however, without a doubt, there IS such a thing as American culture.
The fact that the American Civil War still divides US is likely our most unhealthy weakness.
Why are we still divided?
In my opinion, rather than admit our mistakes, we 'double down' on the dumbness. Rather than use critical & creative thinking strategies, processes, & the like, we stubbornly & stupidly 'stick to our guns'. Stubbornness is often mistaken for stupidity when it would be beneficial to identify it for what it is.
Are you kidding? Are you equating the Confederacy to Nazi Germany? America as a whole was responsible for slavery. The war ended the practice but before that it wasn’t a big issue for anyone except for the poor bastards who were living it. After the Civil War the Union went right back to subjugating Indians and forcing them onto reservations.
Did the good guys win? Really?
Those"poor bastards"were humans with emotions,not animals
"Southern pride" is a BS excuse for what it really was and everyone knows it but I guess some also realize it can't come back so let's cherish the memories of good old time.
Last edited by alpha_1976; 08-21-2020 at 06:42 AM..
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