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If they were telling him, "stop" and "hands" repeatedly at gunpoint and he was reaching anywhere it is legit shoot. Weapons can be concealed anywhere.
In the Floyd case it was an issue immediately while he was still in his car he couldn't seem to keep his hands still and it ramped things up right away. It triggered the officer to grab his gun when Floyd did not comply with that simple first order.
Well, Floyd was pretty obviously tweaking on something. A fact that was confirmed by a woman the police talked to in the video. She said "He's trippin'. Hes got issues going on."
I think I need to clarify my position here a bit. I'm NOT anti cop. I am however not a cop apologist that defends their every action. Such as the Daniel Shaver killing in AZ. And countless other incidents many of which have been discussed here.
If a cop accosts me and tells me to do something such as dont move and/or let me see your hands I'm more than likely going to comply. That being said I may inquire as to why. If he/she is pointing their sidearm at me my compliance is a gimme.
But if I've done nothing wrong and get rousted thus when things get settled down and defused (which I will work very hard to do) someone is going to show me some humility. I've had this happen on more than one occasion. Wrong address, wrong guy overzealous LEOs.
I've also been at the wrong place at the right time and been mistaken for a suspect. That however the officers handled very professionally and with the appropriate level of response.
There has been a trend in LE that over the last 20 years has been very noticeable to go in "guns blazing" meaning the use of inappropriate levels of force. Irate motorists handled with a Taser. One incident there was a thread on here about was a soccer mom who was mad beca5she got pulled over going to the game, got a bit bitchy and ZAP. Taser time.
Cops dont seem to have the people skills that used to be prerequisite for the job. And there is also a trend to go to the gun very quickly and when they do fire they use every mag they have. Which any more is a minimum of 4 15 rounders.
Now I understand that the environment on the street, especially in urban areas, has changed. In a lot of areas hyper violence is the norm. Police response in such areas will reflect that in the approach.
But I'm seeing this trend out here in the rural area I grew up and still live in as well. And things out here haven't changed that much. The level of professionalism and the quality of officers and deputies does vary radically depending on the area around here.
I think that's safe to say about the entire country. As to this specific incident I've seen some varying reports. One that I read on the Fox news site this morning said the guy had his 3 kids in the car.
I'm gonna sit on the fence for a bit on this one and see what shakes out. I just dunno here. One things for sure, they're sure not passing up the opportunity to burn and loot there. Which I'm not on the fence with. Arsonists and looters I'm OK with shooting on sight.
This any excuse to riot bilge I am plumb fed up with. In that I support LE fully.
You must obey police orders, by fighting the police you are putting yourself, the officers, and innocent bystanders in danger by making the situation unpredictable. It is one of the only things you are fully in control of.
Stop making excuses, take responsibility, be a man.
The police are no different to you, only in pursuit of their duty are they backed by any greater authority. If they cannot articulate cause for you to follow orders they cannot be in pursuit of their duty, so they have no more authority than anyone else.
Further obeying police orders only applies to lawful orders, they cannot order you to turn out your pockets or purse without probable cause, they can't order you to commit unlawful acts.
Who said anything about fighting, non-compliance need not be violent, and most often is not.
Hey guess what! Black people who comply will get shot anyway if the cops are racist.
Full recourse? Like the multiple murdering cops who got to keep their jobs and a pile of GoFundMe cash? That kind of full recourse?
God, listen to you people bending over backwards to rationalize police killing citizens because they stood still or didn't stand still or blinked, or leaned, or didn't use the "right" tone.
Non compliance isn't a death penalty offense last time I checked. "Disrespect" isn't a death penalty offense. Disobedience isn't a death penalty offense. We have a mother****ing due process for god's sake. We don't shoot people in the street as part of it.
Justice is impossible when cops kill with impunity and the masses come up with one rationalization after another to defend it.
You have quite an imagination.
This isn't going to go the way you and BLM want it to, it will only get worse for all of us.
The police are no different to you, only in pursuit of their duty are they backed by any greater authority. If they cannot articulate cause for you to follow orders they cannot be in pursuit of their duty, so they have no more authority than anyone else.
Further obeying police orders only applies to lawful orders, they cannot order you to turn out your pockets or purse without probable cause, they can't order you to commit unlawful acts.
Who said anything about fighting, non-compliance need not be violent, and most often is not.
Many things about the Kenosha incident are unknown, but Jacob Blake is clearly walking away from the police as they are yelling at him with guns drawn. It is indisputable based on this video evidence that he was being ordered to stop and he disobeyed those police orders. Had he complied, as he is legally obligated to do so, he would not have put himself in a position with an unpredictable outcome. When you run away from the police, you are taking a grave risk to yourself and others. It is irresponsible and an obstacle to a functional society
The police are no different to you, only in pursuit of their duty are they backed by any greater authority. If they cannot articulate cause for you to follow orders they cannot be in pursuit of their duty, so they have no more authority than anyone else.
Further obeying police orders only applies to lawful orders, they cannot order you to turn out your pockets or purse without probable cause, they can't order you to commit unlawful acts.
Who said anything about fighting, non-compliance need not be violent, and most often is not.
Herein lies another issue with police 'instructions ". Profanity steeped screaming punctuated with threatening tone and posture are not properly articulated orders.
And there is a huge number of LEOs that use that tactic. The old adage me sainted Mother told me about cussing and the lack of self control comes to mind. Anyone, let alone a cop, cussing a blue streak at you while holding a gun on you ...well...that would certainly spook me.
I mean c'mon! Is that really necessary? And it makes me think that self control and being able to handle the adrenaline might just be an issue. To my thinking a cop that "articulates" his/her instructions via every other word being the F bomb might just not be suited for police work.
I'll cut some slack there for VERY high stress situations when actually engaging and armed and dangerous suspect. But it's not just in su h situations that cops use such tone and language.
Many things about the Kenosha incident are unknown, but Jacob Blake is clearly walking away from the police as they are yelling at him with guns drawn. It is indisputable based on this video evidence that he was being ordered to stop and he disobeyed those police orders. Had he complied, as he is legally obligated to do so, he would not have put himself in a position with an unpredictable outcome. When you run away from the police, you are taking a grave risk to yourself and others. It is irresponsible and an obstacle to a functional society
Was he legally obligated to? Was he arrested? Was he legitimately stopped?
If we just comply without argument to the police, then what is the purpose of the 4th Amendmenr? Delaware v. Prowse 1979
Quote:
...ruled an officer has made an illegal seizure when he stops an automobile and detains the driver in order to check his driver's license and the registration of the automobile, unless the officer has articulable and reasonable suspicion that a motorist is unlicensed or that an automobile is not registered, or either the vehicle or an occupant is otherwise subject to seizure for violation of law
The rule is all searches and seizures (which includes stops and temporary detainment) are unreasonable, unless the officer has a warrant, or, has probable cause that a crime may have been, or is in the process of being committed, and therefore must be capable of citation of that law. He looked funny, isn't cause, nor is well he didn't answer questions, that's not required.
The major problem is that people have been too compliant, police have been led to believe all stops, searches and attempts at detaining are permissible because, the gutless wonders we are, have reinforced this by over complying.
Once again we have a police involved shooting in Kenosha, WI where the suspect was ignoring police instructions and being combative. Regardless of the final outcome, if it was justified or not, it would have been 100% avoided if the suspect had followed police instructions.
Why is it that people are not taking any responsibility for what they can do to do their part in making sure these things don't happen. Why aren't people taking responsibility and teaching their kids to respect authority and follow police instructions?
We can't just ignore this problem anymore, if you fight the police there is a huge chance of it ending badly for you, justified or not. But that can be completely avoided if you do the right thing
It is not unlawful to resist an unlawful arrest.
We are governed by consent in the USA, not by force.
Herein lies another issue with police 'instructions ". Profanity steeped screaming punctuated with threatening tone and posture are not properly articulated orders.
And there is a huge number of LEOs that use that tactic. The old adage me sainted Mother told me about cussing and the lack of self control comes to mind. Anyone, let alone a cop, cussing a blue streak at you while holding a gun on you ...well...that would certainly spook me.
I mean c'mon! Is that really necessary? And it makes me think that self control and being able to handle the adrenaline might just be an issue. To my thinking a cop that "articulates" his/her instructions via every other word being the F bomb might just not be suited for police work.
I'll cut some slack there for VERY high stress situations when actually engaging and armed and dangerous suspect. But it's not just in su h situations that cops use such tone and language.
Self control. It's a BIG part of the job.
Profanity and force is the language the underclasses understand. Otherwise you are seen as weak and neutered. Police using that language probably saved some people from being shot because it got them to comply.
We can't have Andy Griffith when dealing in a war zone. And war zones are expanding. It might not seem so in some areas, but I notice things happening slowly like the frog boiling in the pot. The left also want to socially engineer low crime suburban and rural areas to spread chaos all over. Things are already bad, people will soon be evicted from their homes and economy could collapse. The upcoming election is volatile. I don't blame the police for arming up, it was prescient for them to be doing so for some time. Certain groups tried to stop our local police from getting an armored vehicle about ten years ago. Thank goodness we got it. We may well need it soon enough.
Let's not blame the police for what we have become, they just react and reflect society.
Once again we have a police involved shooting in Kenosha, WI where the suspect was ignoring police instructions and being combative. Regardless of the final outcome, if it was justified or not, it would have been 100% avoided if the suspect had followed police instructions.
Why is it that people are not taking any responsibility for what they can do to do their part in making sure these things don't happen. Why aren't people taking responsibility and teaching their kids to respect authority and follow police instructions?
We can't just ignore this problem anymore, if you fight the police there is a huge chance of it ending badly for you, justified or not. But that can be completely avoided if you do the right thing
It is because of racism ...........BLACK RACISM .........fueled by a bias media
It is not unlawful to resist an unlawful arrest.
We are governed by consent in the USA, not by force.
Does resisting a lawful arrest justify the death penalty administered on the spot?
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