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Old 08-25-2020, 09:59 AM
 
Location: Raleigh NC
25,118 posts, read 16,206,328 times
Reputation: 14408

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Goofball86 View Post
Over 50 million people didn't have insurance or were under insured. And before you would get denied for preexisting conditions such as having asthma, high BP, etc wasn't very affordable for those who had it.
at the time, it was 40 million, and based on age and income levels reported, more than 1/2 of those were by choice.

A "healthy" 25 year old does not need to spend $6K/year to get an annual physical. A 40 year old married couple making $80K/year that chooses not to have insurance has done just that - chosen.
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Old 08-25-2020, 10:05 AM
 
Location: Raleigh NC
25,118 posts, read 16,206,328 times
Reputation: 14408
Quote:
Originally Posted by Goofball86 View Post
Just look at medicare has worked well for millions of seniors. idk about medicare for all but something needs to be done.
Medicare works great for those who paid in for 40 years and who can afford parts B-D. Medicare does NOT pay for itself though.

https://www.pgpf.org/budget-basics/medicare
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Old 08-25-2020, 10:05 AM
 
18,801 posts, read 8,465,846 times
Reputation: 4130
Quote:
Originally Posted by bu2 View Post
Well for those who want medicare for all, the best example is the VA system which has been a repeated horror show.
The VA is gov't owned facilities and employees. Medicare by and large is delivered in the private sector.
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Old 08-25-2020, 10:08 AM
 
Location: Raleigh NC
25,118 posts, read 16,206,328 times
Reputation: 14408
Quote:
Originally Posted by jojajn View Post
Got any statistics to back up your ^ assertion?

Remember, those who lie to you, don't want you to know the truth.

Trump says insurers made fortune off Obamacare. They didn't.
it is/was true that they were profiting more than ever. They shifted ACA cost to their private insured.
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Old 08-25-2020, 10:11 AM
 
Location: The Republic of Texas
78,863 posts, read 46,605,811 times
Reputation: 18521
Quote:
Originally Posted by dubyanumberone View Post
Those that are opposed to ObamaCare please tell me what your ideal system would be in regards to healthcare coverage in this country. Do you prefer what we have, think everyone should be able to use their bootstraps, want it to be state run and not federal, etc.... I’d also like to know what your main objection is to ObamaCare... it’s it the federal aspect, the name, worry about drop in quality of care, belief not everyone deserves healthcare, etc....

For the sake of argument let’s say that whatever you are advocating would be available to natural born US citizens and legal immigrants only.


Full disclosure, my political leanings are generally center/left although I could probably vote for an actual true conservative that was liberal socially and not in bed with the religious right if my only other option was a Bernie Sanders type.
Going back to making ALL insurance companies, Non-Profits again.
Monopolized pyramid scheme, made legal for a select few that promised kickbacks to politicians.
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Old 08-25-2020, 10:13 AM
 
Location: New Jersey and hating it
12,202 posts, read 7,219,300 times
Reputation: 17473
Quote:
Originally Posted by jojajn View Post
Got any statistics to back up your ^ assertion?

Remember, those who lie to you, don't want you to know the truth.

Trump says insurers made fortune off Obamacare. They didn't.
I don’t see large insurers going out of business since Obamacare, have you?

And no, posting a link to some biased fakenews site does not a statistic make.
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Old 08-25-2020, 10:13 AM
 
19,387 posts, read 6,499,560 times
Reputation: 12310
Quote:
Originally Posted by antinimby View Post
Also, before Obamacare, the quality of care was better too. The wait times to see a doctor now has gone up so much.

Obama and Pelosi made healthcare worse, not better.
Oh, the waits! I had made an appointment with a specialist back in January, and the earliest availability was April. Naturally, that appointment was cancelled - and rescheduled for October.
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Old 08-25-2020, 10:15 AM
 
19,387 posts, read 6,499,560 times
Reputation: 12310
Quote:
Originally Posted by BoBromhal View Post
it is/was true that they were profiting more than ever. They shifted ACA cost to their private insured.
True. All Obamacare did was shift the financial burden around, with the middle class being the most hurt. It did nothing to address costs.
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Old 08-25-2020, 10:18 AM
 
7,300 posts, read 3,395,348 times
Reputation: 4812
Dismantle the health insurance system (insurance being toxic mix of capitalism and socialism) that inflates medical costs beyond the reach of anyone to pay for without insurance, and allow the market (people's ability to pay) to dictate medical costs.

Just like for everyone else's business.

And watch medical costs plummet like a stone.

Insurance works for optional assets. Meaning, for assets that you voluntarily purchase but aren't required to own. For those assets, people pool their risk and optionally pay for insurance to cover losses. It works because opting out isn't a catstrophic decision. You can always sell the asset, if you lose it it won't kill you, etc.

Life is not an option, but a necessity. Forcing people to pool their risk to insure their health is a socially toxic feature of this civilization. Opting out means risking an unnacceptable loss.

Moreover, the existence of the insurance itself creates market conditions that make healthcare unnafordable for people that otherwise could pay for it in a market system that wasn't distorted by insurance.

Insurance's only purpose is to jack up costs in a manner that requires having insurance to pay.

In a non-distorted system, what you pay in health insurance per month would more than cover your health costs. Especially as averaged over a period of years. The added benefit is that there is no cost if not sick.

The insurance industry has people bent over a rail, and they know it. Everyone pays in one way or another, which creates immense pools of money that medical providers exploit by charging immense sums for medical services. Which, in turn, eventually again pushes health insurance costs higher.

This feedback cycle of rising costs, as largely detached from real market forces, leads to ever wildly more distorted medical costs.

The medical insurance system defines racketeering. It should be dismantled.

Last edited by golgi1; 08-25-2020 at 10:40 AM..
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Old 08-25-2020, 10:19 AM
 
Location: Raleigh NC
25,118 posts, read 16,206,328 times
Reputation: 14408
Quote:
Originally Posted by victimofGM View Post
I believe there should be a meeting of medical professionals (private practice doctors, hospital administrators, pharmacist, etc), medical suppliers, and medical insurance to try to come up with a better plan. Politicians should be the last step in the planning of healthcare reform. The healthcare industry is extremely complicated and the more politicians are involved the more complicate the system becomes. Medical staff are doing more paperwork, real and virtual, because of these complications. A family physician private practice should be focused on caring for patients, not hours of paperwork. ACA mandates required people purchase expensive insurance they didn’t need. A lady past menopause should not be required to purchase insurance to have a baby. Why do hospital run so many scans and test? Part of the reason is lawsuits. Fort reform would help alleviate some of these things. It would also help to lower their malpractice insurance coverage which would also lower the cost they pass onto patients. There are many more things that we don’t know about. Let those who know the day to day operations of private practice and hospitals work towards a plan, not politicians.
Imagine if you "listened to the scientists" aka the doctors.

I happen to be a big believer that we over-test as a defensive mechanism.
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