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You folks know me. I'm your friendly anti-fascist supporter, and I argue with a ton of you on the right all the time. And I have a unpopular opinion. The 17 year old kid shouldn't be charged with murder, its manslaughter.
The NY times put together a timeline that is pretty good in my opinion.
TLDR of the important stuff:
The first guy killed. Immediately before the shooting we see this kid running, someone punchs him in the back, and then a second or so later a gun is fired behind him. He turns...and a guy lunges at him. He shoots and kills him.
This is a 17 year old kid, and the gun being shot off makes him fear for his life. Thats reasonable to me. And while I dont believe his life was in danger-but serious injury was absolutely on the list of possibilities. And he reasonably believes his life was as he doesn't have eyes in the back of his head. He doesn't know who shot, he just got punched by someone or something, and its chaotic. But the guy lunging for him clearly was not intending to give him a hug. I think this was reasonable
But when he shoots the next guy killing him....THAT one I have a issue with. Its NOT unreasonable to believe that someone will take you into custody after you shoot someone. And I dont think he has a reasonable fear of his life enough at that point to justify shooting someone. But I also do not believe this rises to murder. I think its manslaughter. I think he deserves some time in jail. But I also believe his age and the chaos of the moment to be taken into account.
Now we've heard some things that he threatened folks that said bad things about trump all the time. So that TOO needs to be looked at, and considered. But so far from what I have seen....I dont think this deserves a murder charge. But as time goes by more information will come out, and maybe I will change my opinion. But I think folks rushed to snap judgements based upon their political beliefs when they called for him to get murder charges.
Wisconsin doesn't have stand your ground laws. It is a murky jury determination whether deadly force was necessary. He will have his day in court, though I expect it will be plea bargained before then - probably to manslaughter as you say.
Why would you possibly think his life was not in immediate danger at the first attack alone? A mob of leftist extremists was attacking him-not just one guy (one thug just happened to get there first). Across the country these same mobs have been killing innocent people, beating them nearly to death, leaving them with brain injuries, etc. Kyle had NO reason to expect that this vicious thug attacking him would do any less. And given that he was a convicted pedophile, it's likely he would have done worse.
As to the second time the mob attacked him, he was kicked in the head, struck in the head with a deadly weapon and attacked by a man with a handgun. Any one of these could have caused grave harm or death. PEOPLE HAVE DIED FROM LESS than what this child suffered. The fact that 2 of these attackers were convicted criminals further demonstrates the danger.
Now, I'm curious, what has the (now) disarmed guy been charged with? Attempted murder? He was a convict with a gun-pretty sure he wasn't out there cleaning up graffiti. What about the thug that kicked this child in the head?
Last edited by Toyman at Jewel Lake; 08-31-2020 at 08:41 PM..
You folks know me. I'm your friendly anti-fascist supporter, and I argue with a ton of you on the right all the time. And I have a unpopular opinion. The 17 year old kid shouldn't be charged with murder, its manslaughter.
The NY times put together a timeline that is pretty good in my opinion.
TLDR of the important stuff:
The first guy killed. Immediately before the shooting we see this kid running, someone punchs him in the back, and then a second or so later a gun is fired behind him. He turns...and a guy lunges at him. He shoots and kills him.
This is a 17 year old kid, and the gun being shot off makes him fear for his life. Thats reasonable to me. And while I dont believe his life was in danger-but serious injury was absolutely on the list of possibilities. And he reasonably believes his life was as he doesn't have eyes in the back of his head. He doesn't know who shot, he just got punched by someone or something, and its chaotic. But the guy lunging for him clearly was not intending to give him a hug. I think this was reasonable
But when he shoots the next guy killing him....THAT one I have a issue with. Its NOT unreasonable to believe that someone will take you into custody after you shoot someone. And I dont think he has a reasonable fear of his life enough at that point to justify shooting someone. But I also do not believe this rises to murder. I think its manslaughter. I think he deserves some time in jail. But I also believe his age and the chaos of the moment to be taken into account.
Now we've heard some things that he threatened folks that said bad things about trump all the time. So that TOO needs to be looked at, and considered. But so far from what I have seen....I dont think this deserves a murder charge. But as time goes by more information will come out, and maybe I will change my opinion. But I think folks rushed to snap judgements based upon their political beliefs when they called for him to get murder charges.
Much respect sir for a well reasoned view. I don't know if you can get him for manslaughter, but I do think we agree on the particulars of what happened.
Too bad all parties involved didn't just stay home and mind their own business. Well over 100 of the rioters were from out of town and they didn't have any business being there either.
He could’ve stayed home. He didn’t.
He could’ve kept his rifle locked up. He didn’t.
He could get away with murder. He shouldn’t.
The police are there, you should of gone home... You didn't...
You brought weapons and used it against officers and you should of gone to prison... You didn't...
You attacked someone and forced them to defend themself... You are a Democrat...
Unpopular opinion, the 17 year old kids isnt guilty of murder.
Fine. He wasn't charged with murder, so no worries.
He was charged with first-degree intentional homicide, one count of first-degree reckless homicide, one count of attempted first-degree intentional homicide and two counts of first-degree reckless endangerment.
17 is old enough to enlist in the marines, I can attest to that.
Apparently this 'child' had no problem beating on a girl not too long before that. In the head no less. Is it true?
That one goes on the rumor mill heap until we have confirmation. I've seen highly unreliable news sources reporting it, but I'm still waiting on a credible source with verifiable sources. We'll see if it's true. If it's true, we'll see what the particulars are.
End of the day, it's not going to matter in court. Either Kyle had reasonable cause to fear that he was about to be killed or assaulted or he did not. We'll see how it shakes out in court.
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