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Old 09-26-2020, 07:15 PM
 
Location: Buckeye, AZ
38,936 posts, read 23,897,671 times
Reputation: 14125

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rocko20 View Post
Because you would be in a hospital right now. Oh wait, no you wouldn’t.

The virus is so “deadly” you have to be tested to know if you even have it.
Newsflash, most viruses are like that. The flu rarely is tested mainly because it is often nuisance symptoms. Covid has that for many but the likelihood of serious cases is a bit higher especially with comorbidities.
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Old 09-27-2020, 12:39 AM
 
Location: Old Mother Idaho
29,218 posts, read 22,365,741 times
Reputation: 23858
Quote:
Originally Posted by mkpunk View Post
The trust in medical experts i think is where Sweden COULD try to do herd immunity without going to economic shutdowns like Asia, the rest of Europe and America did. America honestly couldn't do what Swedes did due to our natural independence streak. Something in American citizen DNA is too rebellious. There is a lot of FYIWDWYTM in our DNA. A lot of Americans put off medical issues or ignore doctor's orders because they know better. Are there stupid doctors, yes. However Americans act like that regardless of his good or bad a doctor is.
Yup.
Much the trust comes from the fact the Swedes have full medical coverage from the moment they're born to the moment they die. This tends to allow the Swedes to make more visits to their family doctor, and the doctor-patient relationship becomes deeper.

So when the doctor makes a recommendation, it's taken first, not the recommendation. from the local politician.
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Old 09-27-2020, 01:37 AM
 
Location: Texas
37,949 posts, read 17,865,154 times
Reputation: 10371
Quote:
Originally Posted by unit731 View Post
How in God's name would anyone know this. Covid-19 is INCREASING in 32 states.
No it's not and you have no proof. Testing is increasing. The flawed way they count people with covid 19 is rising.
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Old 09-27-2020, 01:44 AM
 
Location: Texas
37,949 posts, read 17,865,154 times
Reputation: 10371
Quote:
Originally Posted by banjomike View Post
Sweden's own expert epidemiologist, Anders Tegnell, was against a quarantine from the very first.

He created Sweden's social strategy to fight the disease.

Now, as of September 25, after the infection rates have spiked twice since the weather has begun to cool, he stated Sweden is going in the wrong direction in fighting the Coronavirus, and he foresees the pandemic there growing steadily worse over the winter.

The reason, he says, that the Swedes were successful in containing the outbreak without quarantine is due to their trust of their health officials and how much they obeyed their official's plans. Their obedience, because no one broke the health rules, allowed them to avoid using quarantine.
Part of it was due to the Swedes themselves. They all live in a cold country, so they have learned how to spend as much time outdoors in all seasons, and during the summer months, they're outdoors as much as they possibly can be. Self-distancing came naturally to them.

Now that the virus is still here and the warm weather is going, the Swedes are beginning to ignore the health warnings and are retiring to their offices, going out to eat indoors instead of outdoors, and other safety rules.

Tegnell now regrets some of his early decisions, stating they allowed too many deaths to happen.

Though lower than in the U.S., Sweden has suffered 8 times more deaths than Denmark, and 19 times more deaths than Norway.

In both the neighboring nations, Covid-19 appears to be under control, while Sweden's death rate is still climbing and the infection rate continues to spread.

Why all the Scandinavian countries' death and infection rates were lower than the rest of Europe remains a mystery that The WHO is still trying to discover.
Explain to everyone here why Sweden should be compared to the rest of the Scandinavian countries'. I'd really like to know. But you wont answer because you can't.

Explain to everyone here why the states with the earliest and strictest lock downs in America were hit the hardest? New York and New Jersey.

Lower than UK, Spain and Italy. Spain and Italy had hard lock downs. Argentina probably hit hardest had the earliest and strictest lockdowns.

“We don’t have the resurgence of the disease that many countries have,” Anders Tegnell, the country’s chief epidemiologist and architect of its no-lockdown strategy, told broadcaster France-24 in an interview, adding that the country was broadly happy with its overall strategy.

Tegnell told France-24 the country’s high mortality rate was not related to its overall strategy but rather to a failure to prevent the catastrophic spread of the virus in the country’s care homes, where the majority of Sweden’s 5,846 deaths occurred. “Of course something went wrong there,” he said.


https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...es-since-march

Strange how my 10 day old link is so different than what you posted. hmmmm

Last edited by Loveshiscountry; 09-27-2020 at 01:53 AM..
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Old 09-27-2020, 07:14 AM
 
45,676 posts, read 24,012,426 times
Reputation: 15559
Quote:
Originally Posted by Loveshiscountry View Post
Explain to everyone here why Sweden should be compared to the rest of the Scandinavian countries'. I'd really like to know. But you wont answer because you can't.

Explain to everyone here why the states with the earliest and strictest lock downs in America were hit the hardest? New York and New Jersey.

Lower than UK, Spain and Italy. Spain and Italy had hard lock downs. Argentina probably hit hardest had the earliest and strictest lockdowns.

“We don’t have the resurgence of the disease that many countries have,” Anders Tegnell, the country’s chief epidemiologist and architect of its no-lockdown strategy, told broadcaster France-24 in an interview, adding that the country was broadly happy with its overall strategy.

Tegnell told France-24 the country’s high mortality rate was not related to its overall strategy but rather to a failure to prevent the catastrophic spread of the virus in the country’s care homes, where the majority of Sweden’s 5,846 deaths occurred. “Of course something went wrong there,” he said.


https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...es-since-march

Strange how my 10 day old link is so different than what you posted. hmmmm
US did not have the earliest and most strict lockdown....lol. They enacted the restrictions of foreign nationals coming from China about the same time as most other countries.

Europe was in fact not shut down until March.

New York was hit hard by European travelers.

That's the thing -- with science you can track the virus.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/08/u...e-updates.html

And given the population density of the north east -- it makes sense that it would have be hit the hardest and the earliest.
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Old 09-27-2020, 08:01 AM
 
51,653 posts, read 25,819,464 times
Reputation: 37889
It's too soon to tell if Sweden's approach is working better than that of neighboring nations.
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Old 09-29-2020, 01:49 AM
 
Location: Texas
37,949 posts, read 17,865,154 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moneill View Post
US did not have the earliest and most strict lockdown....lol. They enacted the restrictions of foreign nationals coming from China about the same time as most other countries.

Europe was in fact not shut down until March.
So China shuts down Mid January because they were hit first. Europe gets hit after them and you think March isn't early?....lol. UK Italy Belgium all have higher rates than Sweden.

Quote:
Originally Posted by moneill View Post
New York was hit hard by European travelers.

That's the thing -- with science you can track the virus.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/08/u...e-updates.html

And given the population density of the north east -- it makes sense that it would have be hit the hardest and the earliest.
Connecticut, New Jersey, Massachusetts don't have the foreign travelers. Other densely populated areas didn't get hit like them. Murdering the elderly by sending covid patients to Nursing homes didn't help.

Forget Argentina?....lol.
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Old 10-13-2020, 08:52 AM
 
12,022 posts, read 11,572,686 times
Reputation: 11136
Quote:
The Swedish government chose to pursue herd immunity during the spring when COVID-19 overwhelmed many European nations, favoring voluntary control measures over strict lockdown procedures. This week, 21 Swedish infectious diseases experts denounced the policy, writing, “In Sweden, the strategy has led to death, grief, and suffering, and on top of that there are no indications that the Swedish economy has fared better than in many other countries. At the moment, we have set an example for the rest of the world on how not to deal with a deadly infectious disease.”

The United Kingdom also flirted with a herd immunity strategy in March, but it soon backtracked as the death toll rose and Prime Minister Boris Johnson was hospitalized with COVID-19.
https://fortune.com/2020/07/27/herd-...id-sweden/amp/
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Old 10-13-2020, 10:46 AM
 
4,022 posts, read 1,877,686 times
Reputation: 8647
Actually...


Lots of opinions and politics around this, obviously, but the math has been plain for 5 months - and it has not changed, not once.


Sweden reached 5000 deaths a few months back, nearing 6000 now, but with practically no daily deaths.


Ohio (same population size, more dense, more vulnerable demographic) JUST NOW passed 5000 - 4 months later. Ohio will catch Sweden sometime 40-60 days from now.



Then it will just be a matter of who suffered more. It may SEEM simple to say "OHIO" - as the financial damage is not small. But the point of taking 8 months to kill 6000 people instead of 60 days - was to make sure Ohio's hospitals were never close to full. And they weren't. That was not dumb luck.


Sweden's hospitals WERE close to full - they had a few worrisome weeks there for a bit - but for a number of reasons, they came out the other side OK. Ohio may not have been as luck. Or maybe they would have been. But no way to know...
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Old 10-13-2020, 04:00 PM
 
Location: Free From The Oppressive State
30,253 posts, read 23,737,137 times
Reputation: 38634
Quote:
Originally Posted by leastwanted View Post
Sweden is pretty much a "socialist" country and even the poorest people receive healthcare for free.

If the US takes the same strategy, let's guess which group suffers the most? I'm sure it is not Trump or his alike.
There is no such thing as "health care for free".

Someone is paying for it. In those socialist countries, they pay for it with taxes that they don't even know what they are. You go buy something, they love to boast how "the tax is already included" when they come to this country and go to buy something and are told, "$5.99+ tax". At least we know what our tax is.

They don't.

They ARE paying for it. Tacking it on to some television tax, or sales tax, or pet tax, or how much you have tax, or whatever the hell else they like to tax, doesn't mean "healthcare is free".
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