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Using the covid death numbers in comparison to other events in itself is simply a point of reference.
Well, unless you take that next step and demand involuntary collective action.
I am not sure of the difference since the former can be compelled by shaming. I see your point if voluntary is truly voluntary; but what is asked should have real benefits, not just be feelgood measures.
I am not sure of the difference since the former can be compelled by shaming. I see your point if voluntary is truly voluntary; but what is asked should have real benefits, not just be feelgood measures.
Shaming is a morally acceptable tactic to use in influencing the market.
Whether something has benefits or not is up to the individual.
I bring up Covid death numbers nearly every day in here because I'm extremely pro-Covid protocols in voluntary form. I want to persuade folks and if we had a free market I would use it to try to alter the behavior of others.
In no way, shape, or form do I want to ever see any government edict on Covid or any other issue.
I think this is a false narrative. That said I understand how we got to this point. I mean there have been tons of viruses to end all viruses since I was young. I mean how many times did we hear that SARS, Avian Flu, Swine Flu, MERS, Ebola, Zika and then Covid and how many were as effective as Covid? Not really, Swine Flu was the most effective in the US but it didn't cause death like Covid did. This was why until March, I didn't think Covid was that bad. Most people getting it went to China, had contact with someone who traveled to China, took a cruise or had contact with someone who went on a cruise. I expected it to be the next virus to burn out, it hasn't even after a full calendar year of it becoming a news story.
I think the "security theater" argument is wrong. It is wrong with terrorism, it is wrong with COVID. Terrorism happens largely with mass events. Since more and more events are going to security measures. Yes, most don't have much teeth, but knowing you have to get metal detected does prevent it. Look at the Paris bombing of the soccer game, the bombers weren't let in the stadium and only killed a handful rather than more people because they didn't have tickets. This is in comparison to the Ariana Grande Manchester bombing which occured in a soft target before inspection. COVID, was a blindspot similar to 9/11. We had plenty of close calls for both.
I think this is a false narrative. That said I understand how we got to this point. I mean there have been tons of viruses to end all viruses since I was young. I mean how many times did we hear that SARS, Avian Flu, Swine Flu, MERS, Ebola, Zika and then Covid and how many were as effective as Covid? Not really, Swine Flu was the most effective in the US but it didn't cause death like Covid did. This was why until March, I didn't think Covid was that bad. Most people getting it went to China, had contact with someone who traveled to China, took a cruise or had contact with someone who went on a cruise. I expected it to be the next virus to burn out, it hasn't even after a full calendar year of it becoming a news story.
I think the "security theater" argument is wrong. It is wrong with terrorism, it is wrong with COVID. Terrorism happens largely with mass events. Since more and more events are going to security measures. Yes, most don't have much teeth, but knowing you have to get metal detected does prevent it. Look at the Paris bombing of the soccer game, the bombers weren't let in the stadium and only killed a handful rather than more people because they didn't have tickets. This is in comparison to the Ariana Grande Manchester bombing which occured in a soft target before inspection. COVID, was a blindspot similar to 9/11. We had plenty of close calls for both.
Good points all. I do want to think about it rather than give a knee-jerk response. But I suppose the start would be the obvious fact that Covid is hitting the under-class, who both live in high-density conditions and are prone to obesity. How does closing downtown businesses, putting them out of work help them?
Good points all. I do want to think about it rather than give a knee-jerk response. But I suppose the start would be the obvious fact that Covid is hitting the under-class, who both live in high-density conditions and are prone to obesity. How does closing downtown businesses, putting them out of work help them?
Less vectors to go through in theory. We act like downtown businesses are just banks, stock exchanges, corporate buildings. They aren't and there are several businesses like coffee shops, restaurants, bookstores, etc. and they hire far more of the underclass workers. These underclass would become vectors to the upperclass. Same goes for use of mass transit which has all walks of life use especially in New York. More cities in the west tend to be more made for the rat race to the suburbs on highways and biways. That said, the New York shutdown didn't work like the California did because the virus was already going through these vectors at the time New York finally shutdown. COVID was an invisible enemy at the time in more ways than we realized.
That said, the New York shutdown didn't work like the California did because the virus was already going through these vectors at the time New York finally shutdown. COVID was an invisible enemy at the time in more ways than we realized.
That is likely why the NYC area has had an unbelievably mild spike compared to almost everywhere else. I suspect Covid's race through the area left behind a quasi-"herd immunity."
COVID19 surely reminds me of post 9/11 kneejerk reactions. As well as lies and half truths given by the government and mainstream media. How anyone who doubts it is automatically labeled a conspiracy theorist. Even though this event seem to scream bio attack in every-way in how it breaks every rule known to past experience with diseases.
The mass shutting down of restrooms in commercial establishments and a COVID safety plan that varies a lot from venue to venue really reminded me of what happened after 9/11. Remember back when each airline started their own security protocol on standing up while underway and lavatory use varying greatly from airline to airline and prior to the TSA formation in 2002 from airport to airport? And how many restrooms were shut permanently especially underground in fear of terror resulting in a health hazard as elevators and other secluded areas became makeshift "toilets." for those desperate to relief themselves, homeless or otherwise.
Don't even get me started in the questioning which I remember about to get on a flight or the announcements at the airport saying "we are now at threat level orange." Just like today's COVID threat which would never go to green. Except now questioning occurs to go to many other venues aside from air travel.
Does it occur to you that 20 years later we are still contending with increased feel good security measures not just going on a plane but in our everyday lives as well, and that they supposingly assassinated Bin Laden? Even heading to a museum I got wallet searched in their new security checkpoint that didn't exist just a few years past. And they made up their own rules not written anywhere at the museum or its website ie food on the grounds outside buildings.
Just recently I noticed a COVID testing site and possibly a future vaccine site. That has the sign no photography/video taping, which I remember about security measures. Though makes me ponder they must be hiding something in these vaccines as I never seen no photography/video taping at flu shot stations. That vaccine must be magical if it can suddenly stop all alleged mutations of this virus.
Anyone remember American Idiot by Green Day? There was actually a broadway play based on the song. The song came out after 9/11 (2004) but during the Bush presidency. For reference the lyrics:
Don't wanna be an American idiot
Don't want a nation under the new media
And can you hear the sound of hysteria?
The subliminal mind $#%$ America
You can do a search for the rest of the song. I think they were referring to media influence relating to post 9/11 events and the subsequent Iraq war. Apparently, there was a lot of consensus back then that the media was influencing public opinions on the pro-Bush agenda. I often think back to those days, anyone else?
So, what changed? Can we relate the role of the media back in 2004 to the role of the media today? Has anything changed? Have they switched sides?
Anyone remember American Idiot by Green Day? There was actually a broadway play based on the song. The song came out after 9/11 (2004) but during the Bush presidency. For reference the lyrics:
Don't wanna be an American idiot
Don't want a nation under the new media
And can you hear the sound of hysteria?
The subliminal mind $#%$ America
You can do a search for the rest of the song. I think they were referring to media influence relating to post 9/11 events and the subsequent Iraq war. Apparently, there was a lot of consensus back then that the media was influencing public opinions on the pro-Bush agenda. I often think back to those days, anyone else?
So, what changed? Can we relate the role of the media back in 2004 to the role of the media today? Has anything changed? Have they switched sides?
I do, great song, even better album. The rest of the album is not as politically charged. There is some in the Broadway show and Holiday is at points,, but the rest of the album is about a 20 something that wants to leave his rundown suburb for something more but gets dragged down by his punk rock life and his bad upbringing..
Here is the thing, I listen to it and it is still relevant. Why, you now have what at least 10 years of alternative media from your Alex Jones, Glenn Becks, Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannitys, Tucker Carlsons, etc. and also more conservative leaning local television (especially Fox owned channels and Sinclair channels) and radio. There is a lot of radio like that. Green Day tackled Trumpism and blind loyalty during their song "Back in the USA" off their most recent Greatest Hits album. One line from the bridge was "Let them eat poison and it tastes like lemonade"
To me, that reads as tell them the news they want to hear to lead a Trojan horse in. We see this a lot with Trumpism and even some Democrats don't get me wrong. The issue i see is like those that got more into conservative views through conspiracy theories like antivaxing or Q-anon with pizzagate.
Just recently I noticed a COVID testing site and possibly a future vaccine site. That has the sign no photography/video taping, which I remember about security measures. Though makes me ponder they must be hiding something in these vaccines as I never seen no photography/video taping at flu shot stations. That vaccine must be magical if it can suddenly stop all alleged mutations of this virus.
Influenza is not so politically charged as Covid 19. There exist crazies out there.
The vaccines can help stop mutation simply from decreasing the virus's existence and transmission. So far the virus has mutated in ways that have not interfered with the vaccines. Of course no one knows how long that will hold out. Best guess seems to be yearly vaccinations with an updated vaccine like with the flu shot.
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