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Old 10-12-2020, 12:48 PM
 
Location: Berwick, Penna.
16,215 posts, read 11,333,999 times
Reputation: 20828

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Quote:
Originally Posted by tijlover View Post
The USSR split up, why can't we?
Because we are not an over-centralized, power-obsessed, repressive regime, run by a gerontocracy.

At least -- not yet.

The American Experiment was founded on the principle of federalism -- allowing each state, within sensible limits, to pursue its own goals. That idea nearly foundered over the question of slavery, and at a tremendous cost in loss of lives, liberties and property (and the build-up to that took another 80+ years, during which the world as a whole, through the process known as the Enlightenment, moved further away from oppression), so that the "good guys" finally won, the wounds were healed, and human progress continued.

Over the past century-plus, the world has witnessed the beak-up of several nations -- sometimes peaceful (Sweden and Czechoslovakia) and sometimes bloody (India and Yugoslavia). And we're not the only nation dealing with this; Canada, often cited as a model for democracy, has a serious problem with internal divisions. And the Philippines, struggling with seventeen distinct tribal groups and sixteen languages (sixteen sets of lyrics to their national anthem ) is coping, borrowing, to some degree, from American Federalism.

We're a little overstressed at present -- due in no small part to the pressures aggravated by greater mobility and and advances in communications, but it's not worth throwing the entire American Experiment away.

A little reminder from nearly half a century ago:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lw2ysu1RWLA

Last edited by 2nd trick op; 10-12-2020 at 01:54 PM..
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Old 10-12-2020, 12:50 PM
 
21,989 posts, read 15,710,757 times
Reputation: 12943
Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
Public assistance programs are over 25% of federal spending. They have to be discussed, especially since they're Fed Gov overreach. The Fed Gov has no Constitutional authority to implement or administer them. Constitutionally, they are each state's responsibility if the constituency of each state, respectively, wishes to tax for, implement, and administer them.
I could talk about federal spending all day, such as how the top five states on Disability are in the South. But that is not the topic of this thread. The thread is about breaking up the country. Posting blame is not addressing the question. Both sides detest one another. Break up the country. It would probably be the most amicable vote we've ever had. It's like the divorce where both parties can't wait to get away from one another.
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Old 10-12-2020, 01:16 PM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
89,006 posts, read 44,824,472 times
Reputation: 13709
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seacove View Post
I could talk about federal spending all day, such as how the top five states on Disability are in the South. But that is not the topic of this thread. The thread is about breaking up the country. Posting blame is not addressing the question. Both sides detest one another. Break up the country. It would probably be the most amicable vote we've ever had. It's like the divorce where both parties can't wait to get away from one another.
Sure... Let's look at who's on disability.

Quote:
"At the national level, Native Americans have the highest disability rate among working-age adults (16 percent), followed by blacks (11 percent), whites (9 percent), Hispanics (7 percent), and Asians (4 percent)."
https://www.brookings.edu/blog/the-a...and-education/

And from the Maxwell Poll...

Those on disability are
Democrats: 64%
Republicans: 25%

Proving, yet again, that Democrats are the majority of society's takers. Why give them any more power in the Fed Gov? They already have too much power and use it to pander to and bribe their taker voter base.
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Old 10-12-2020, 01:17 PM
 
8,299 posts, read 3,811,388 times
Reputation: 5919
Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
Sure... Let's look at who's on disability.
Let's not. Let's stay on topic of this thread. You keep moving the discussion from breaking up the country to the sad state of welfare in southern states. You can start another thread for that topic if you wish.
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Old 10-12-2020, 01:20 PM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
89,006 posts, read 44,824,472 times
Reputation: 13709
Quote:
Originally Posted by TexasLawyer2000 View Post
Let's not. Let's stay on topic of this thread. You keep moving the discussion from breaking up the country to the sad state of welfare in southern states. You can start another thread for that topic if you wish.
It's not just Southern states. California has 12% of the US population but 34% of the US population on public assistance. Fully 1/3 of all public assistance recipients are Californians. Blue-staters.

The state with the highest number of public assistance enrollees per capita is New Mexico. Another blue state.
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Old 10-12-2020, 02:27 PM
 
Location: Tucson/Nogales
23,219 posts, read 29,044,905 times
Reputation: 32626
Quote:
Originally Posted by TexasLawyer2000 View Post
So you're okay with 38% of a population not paying federal income tax? Taxes were cut since this report, so I would imagine the number is even higher now.
It's all but irrelevant if taxes are raised or not, due to the existing loopholes, which are guarded heavily by Democrats. The Democrats raise the issue of raising taxes to make the poor feel better, but they never condemn the loopholes.
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Old 10-12-2020, 02:29 PM
 
34,278 posts, read 19,368,360 times
Reputation: 17261
Yawn. Russia is loving this, and encouraging it. Given we have fought a civil war over this once already im not sure why folks want another one.
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Old 10-12-2020, 02:46 PM
 
8,495 posts, read 8,787,669 times
Reputation: 5701
I posted some detailed commentary on breakup implications in another thread, if interested and if didn't see it yet.

https://www.city-data.com/forum/poli...l#post59387441


May be more likely for political losers or perceived losers and / or radical to push this idea. The talk usually does not amount to much, but we'll see in coming years, decades.

I am inclined to focus on making now work reasonably well despite the ups and downs. If a majority or super majority began to take dissolution seriously, I'd be forced to look closer / participate more. We are not there yet.

Last edited by NW Crow; 10-12-2020 at 03:02 PM..
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Old 10-12-2020, 04:27 PM
 
Location: Cali
14,228 posts, read 4,592,230 times
Reputation: 8320
I think we tried that about 170 years ago and cost 1.2 million american lives
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Old 10-12-2020, 05:09 PM
 
21,989 posts, read 15,710,757 times
Reputation: 12943
Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
Sure... Let's look at who's on disability.


https://www.brookings.edu/blog/the-a...and-education/

And from the Maxwell Poll...

Those on disability are
Democrats: 64%
Republicans: 25%

Proving, yet again, that Democrats are the majority of society's takers. Why give them any more power in the Fed Gov? They already have too much power and use it to pander to and bribe their taker voter base.
It looks like you didn't read your own article.

"Places with the lowest disability rates have strong economies and well-educated populations, such as San Jose, Los Angeles, and San Francisco in California; Madison, Wisc.; Austin, Texas; and Washington, D.C. Metropolitan areas with the highest disability rates are located both within and outside of the disability belt. Some have historically manufacturing-based or industrial economies, such as Scranton, Pa.; Birmingham, Ala.; Toledo, Ohio; and Spokane, Wash. Others, like Tucson, Ariz.; Deltona, Fla.; and El Paso, Texas have large tourism or agricultural sectors that employ many workers with low levels of education."
https://www.brookings.edu/blog/the-a...and-education/

Another good one:
UNFIT FOR WORK
The startling rise of disability in America
https://apps.npr.org/unfit-for-work/

But, no need to get off topic. If the GOP thinks they are the real breadwinners in this country - great! They should be all the more willing to split the country. Wins all around. An amicable divorce really would be the ideal.
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