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LOL... this is just crackpot Afro-Egyptian theory seeping through.
Fast forward 100 years and the same thing will be happening but targeting a broader range of history.
The crackpot theory is your claim of them being white. This is just white supremacy permeating your perception of history. White people outside of Rome and Greece were barbarians back then. As mentioned above, Herodotus described Egyptians as black, but they were also described as having curly hair.
Cleopatra, which, by the way, is Greek for "glory of her father," as far as anyone knows, was Greek with a bit of Persian from the intermarrying from Persian conquests 300 years previous.
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Originally Posted by Checkmarkblue
As for Alexander the great? The left should embrace him. Why? He was bisexual. And he believed in the people he conquered to be equals just as the Greeks and other European peoples. Alexander the great is not a white supremacist. Sadly his generals believed in the opposite.
Alexander was bi-sexual according to what source you read. According to Plutarch, he despised homosexuality, and twice went a little crazy when he was offered boys as tribute. According to Roman author Quintus Curtius Rufus, he had a relationship with Boagas the eunuch. Arrian said nothing about his sexuality at all. No one, anywhere, to my knowledge ever claimed that he had a relationship with Hephaestion, which is where the idea usually comes from.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sorel36
The crackpot theory is your claim of them being white. This is just white supremacy permeating your perception of history. White people outside of Rome and Greece were barbarians back then. As mentioned above, Herodotus described Egyptians as black, but they were also described as having curly hair.
Back to Cleopatra, she was Greek.
Except that he didn't. He gave the number of Nubian pharaohs in contrast to the number of "Egyptian" pharaohs. He also described Egyptians as "melenchroes," which doesn't mean "black," but only dark, and was used to describe swarthy Greeks.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bu2
There was a very good recent series on Cleopatra on the history channel. Think it was 3 or 4 parts.
They said she wasn't beautiful, but she was brilliant, educated and had incredible charisma. She was cold and calculating. She had her brother murdered to secure the throne.
Plutarch said that she was not incomparably beautiful, but I believe that Dio said that she was beautiful. I know that some ancient author said that she was, and I think I remember reading it in Dio.
Last edited by cachibatches; 10-17-2020 at 08:54 PM..
Except that he didn't. He gave the number of Nubian pharaohs in contrast to the number of "Egyptian" pharaohs. He also described Egyptians as "melenchroes," which doesn't mean "black," but only dark, and was used to describe swarthy Greeks.
I think context is important here. Heredotus compared the Egyptians in likeness to the Ethiopians(referring to the Nubians then), who in return had likeness to South Indians except for having curly or tightly coiled hair from his perspective. He also compared the Egyptians to another people called Colchians, who were basically believed to be Egypt's diaspora in the Caucasus region. I think there is a middle ground here, and the Egyptians were probably somewhere between the typical modern day Middle Eastern and Ethiopian looking, kind of how many of them look now. There's also a likelihood that they didn't diverge much in looks from current Egyptians. Still, from the perspective of Herodotus and other contemporaries, they were some of the darkest people known to the Mediterranean region.
The copy of The Histories I have is by G.C. Macaulay, a 19th century English classical scholar. He explicitly used "black" for melenchroes. I don't see why it would be translated as black by a writer from that era, given the zeitgeist back then. I did a quick search around for what melanchroes translates to and who it refers. Apparently, the Greeks had several other words to describe complexion, such as phrenychroes (brown, reddish or reddish-brown), leucochroes(white), and chalkeos (bronze). This is according to the top answer over at Quora. https://www.quora.com/Herodotus-call...s-doesnt-black
I think context is important here. Heredotus compared the Egyptians in likeness to the Ethiopians(referring to the Nubians then), who in return had likeness to South Indians except for having curly or tightly coiled hair from his perspective. He also compared the Egyptians to another people called Colchians, who were basically believed to be Egypt's diaspora in the Caucasus region. I think there is a middle ground here, and the Egyptians were probably somewhere between the typical modern day Middle Eastern and Ethiopian looking, kind of how many of them look now. There's also a likelihood that they didn't diverge much in looks from current Egyptians. Still, from the perspective of Herodotus and other contemporaries, they were some of the darkest people known to the Mediterranean region.
The copy of The Histories I have is by G.C. Macaulay, a 19th century English classical scholar. He explicitly used "black" for melenchroes. I don't see why it would be translated as black by a writer from that era, given the zeitgeist back then. I did a quick search around for what melanchroes translates to and who it refers. Apparently, the Greeks had several other words to describe complexion, such as phrenychroes (brown, reddish or reddish-brown), leucochroes(white), and chalkeos (bronze). This is according to the top answer over at Quora. https://www.quora.com/Herodotus-call...s-doesnt-black
Again, he said that Egyptians and Colchians had "dark skin," using the world melanchroes, which does not equal black as in African. It just means dark, and was used to describe swarthy Greeks.
He differentiated Egyptians from Ethiopians:
After this man the priest enumerate to me from a papyrus the names of other Kings, three hundred and thirty in number; and in all these generations of men eighteen were Ethiopians, one was a woman and the rest were men and of Egyptian race.
Again, he said that Egyptians and Colchians had "dark skin," using the world melanchroes, which does not equal black as in African. It just means dark, and was used to describe swarthy Greeks.
He differentiated Egyptians from Ethiopians:
After this man the priest enumerate to me from a papyrus the names of other Kings, three hundred and thirty in number; and in all these generations of men eighteen were Ethiopians, one was a woman and the rest were men and of Egyptian race.
Well, I didn't mean to say that "black" in context meant an African race. He used it to describe complexion. Back then, one's ethnicity/kingdom of origin was their race. Of course, the Egyptians and Ethiopians were differentiated as two separate races.
Melanchroes could mean either dark or black.
Herodotus/ G.C. Macualay uses "black" in reference to the tale of two black doves (Egyptian women) who founded Oracles in Libya and Hellas(Greece):
56. I have an opinion about the matter as follows:- If the Phenicians did in truth carry away the consecrated women and sold one of them into Libya and the other into Hellas, I suppose that in the country now called Hellas, which was formerly called Pelasgia, this woman was sold into the land of Thesprotians; and then being a slave there she set up a sanctuary of Zeus under a real oak-tree. Indeed it was natural that being an attendant of the sanctuary of Zeus at Thebes, she should there, in the place to which she come, have a memory of him; and after this, when she got understanding of the Hellenic tongue, she established an Oracle, and she reported, I suppose, that her sister had been sold in Libya by the same Phenicians by whom she herself had been sold. 57. Moreover, I think that the women were called doves by the people of Dodona for the reason that they were Barbarians and because it seemed to them that they uttered voice like birds; but after a time(they say) the dove spoke with human voice, that is when the woman began to speak so that they could understand; but so long as she spoke a Barbarian tongue she seemed to them to be uttering voice like a bird. If it had been really a dove, how could it speak with human voice? And in saying that the dove was black, they indicate that the woman was Egyptian.- Book 2, chapters 56 & 57
Has anyone here been to Egypt? The med in general, Greece, Turkey, Spain, or Italy? Well those who have know something. There is a lot of similarities in the general appearance of the people.
You have really light skinned as well as dark skinned. Usually the very well off are light skinned compared to those who spend hours laboring in the son.
Just tell the complainers to f-off and go make their own movie.
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