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You don't see a connection between the Social unrest of today which was heightened by the death of George Floyd and the rush to remove Confederate statues?
Seems pretty obvious to me.
I don't see it because there have been calls to remove Confederate statues for years.
I won't claim the North to be saintly. I will say this though. It might have been a fight to save the Union for the North, but it was a fight to keep slavery for the South. And it is the South's reason for fighting that matters above anything else.
Frederick Douglas keeping it real:
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"Whatever else I may forget, I shall never forget the difference between those who fought for liberty and those who fought for slavery.”
~Frederick Douglas
Frederick Douglas on 'hero worship'
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...After Lee’s death in 1870, Frederick Douglass, the former fugitive slave who had become the nation’s most prominent African-American, wrote, “We can scarcely take up a newspaper . . . that is not filled with nauseating flatteries” of Lee, from which “it would seem . . . that the soldier who kills the most men in battle, even in a bad cause, is the greatest Christian, and entitled to the highest place in heaven.” ...
Back then, there were those that understood that Robert E. Lee didn't deserve to be lionized. However, the Lost Cause sentiment was strong among many southerners back then. It isn't surprising that there were many people who lauded Robert E. Lee. This was 1870. There were many people who wished slavery was still legal.
I don't see it because there have been calls to remove Confederate statues for years.
The Day the Flag Went Up according to Daniel Hollis, the last surviving member of the centennial commission, appointed in 1959 by Gov. Fritz Hollings to plan the state's observance of the 100th anniversary of the American Civil War (they called it the 'War Between the States').
"I was the only Civil War historian. There were three UDC girls on it, and John May was chairman. May was a state representative from Aiken. He called himself `Mr. Confederacy' and wore a Confederate uniform to our meetings. I called May an inveterate Confederate.
"They would argue that the war wasn't fought over slavery but states' rights. That's ridiculous. Without the slavery issue South Carolina would not have seceded. You think they would have gotten angry enough about tariffs to start shooting?"
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The day the Confederate flag went up over the State House, the opening ceremonies of the centennial in Charleston were marred by controversy. Newspapers reported the open and ugly feuding between South Carolina and the national Centennial Commission, calling it "the second battle of Fort Sumter."
The centennial delegations from New Jersey and Missouri included blacks who were refused entrance to the segregated Francis Marion Hotel, where the events were to be held. The South Carolina hosts refused to allow the black delegates to participate. In response, the Charleston NAACP organized protests.
The situation was only partially resolved when President John F. Kennedy issued an executive order moving the centennial meetings to the Charleston Navy Base, one of the few integrated facilities in town. South Carolina led the South in leaving the national commission, and holding its own segregated events in the hotel.
From 2017, in New Orleans. Excerpts from the article.
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Ruling in favor of Mayor Mitch Landrieu and the New Orleans City Council, U.S. District Court Judge Carl Barbier and the 5th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals handed down what some have been waiting for since at least the 1960s: permission to remove of the Battle of Liberty Place monument off Canal Street and three monuments to Civil War-era Confederate figures.
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The White League, which was closely aligned with the Ku Klux Klan, was dedicated to tearing down Reconstruction-era government that was partly aimed at enfranchising Southern black residents with political power. By the 1990s, as the city resisted calls to return the Liberty Place monument downtown after a street construction project, civil rights leaders were leading protests against its re-installation.
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In a striking photo The Times-Picayune published in March 1993, New Orleans police are shown dragging the Rev. Avery Alexander, a civil rights leader, in a headlock as he disrupts a ceremony to rededicate the monument. On the other side of the debate was former Ku Klux Klan leader David Duke, who publicly opposed efforts to remove the monument.
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While city officials at the time seemed sympathetic to efforts to remove the Liberty Place monument, they were hampered by a federal court ruling in favor of an Uptown pharmacist who sued to force the monument's reinstallation. Several years passed before civil rights leaders renewed their opposition to city monuments they saw as heralding white supremacy, yet this time they took aim at Confederate symbols.
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While it's been nearly two decades since the calls to remove the Robert E. Lee monument -- and 25 years since the Liberty Place demonstrations -- activists who are now organized under the banner of Take Em Down NOLA say they trace their efforts to the 1950s. That was when civil rights leaders began boycotts and protests connected with a tradition known as McDonogh Day, honoring New Orleans schools benefactor John McDonogh.
The Day the Flag Went Up according to Daniel Hollis, the last surviving member of the centennial commission, appointed in 1959 by Gov. Fritz Hollings to plan the state's observance of the 100th anniversary of the American Civil War (they called it the 'War Between the States').
"I was the only Civil War historian. There were three UDC girls on it, and John May was chairman. May was a state representative from Aiken. He called himself `Mr. Confederacy' and wore a Confederate uniform to our meetings. I called May an inveterate Confederate.
"They would argue that the war wasn't fought over slavery but states' rights. That's ridiculous. Without the slavery issue South Carolina would not have seceded. You think they would have gotten angry enough about tariffs to start shooting?"
The Confederate flag and Jim Crow segregation went hand in hand, especially in the 1950s. I notice the only person who is actually a historian was telling the truth. Of course during this time, no one would listen to the persons who actually studied about the Civil War. He didn't tell them what they wanted to hear.
The UDC functioned as a of pro-Confederate propaganda machine.
^ the other group who do not see themselves in American History.
Confederate, decentralized until 1787; Union, centralized there after, with States questioning their sovereign powers and how can they possibly be maintained --- I'm not conflating anything.
They were fighting to maintain the Confederate Form of government, which this country was founded on --- so you tell me.
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Originally Posted by ChiGeekGuest
Robert E. Lee, Thomas “Stonewall” Jackson & President of the Confederacy Jefferson Davis were not founders of the United States of America.
Maybe not, but these United States was founded on a Confederate form of government --- and under that form of government still ongoing in 1787, while the decision making was taking place at the Convention on the construction of a u.s. Constitution binding contract --- an ordinance was adopted by the Confederation Congress on July 13, 1787. On the table was a provision that prohibited slavery --- article 6 of the Northwest Ordinance it passed unanimously at a time when the most States that were present --- where Southern.
Nathan Dane to Rufus King, July 16. 1787, "When I drew the Ordinance (which passed, a few words excepted, as I originally formed it,) I had no idea the states would agree to the sixth article, prohibiting slavery..."
3 For discussion of article 6 of the ordinance and Dane's role in its adoption, see Paul Finkelman, "Slavery and the Northwest Ordinance: A Study in Ambiguity," Journal of the Early Republic 6 (Winter 1986): 351--;57. For an analysis of the remarkable voting configuration on this famous antislavery provision, which carried unanimously at a time when "the eight states present were mostly southern," see Calvin Jillson and Rick K. Wilson, Congressional Dynamics. Structure, Coordination, and Choice in the First American Congress, 1774--;1789 (Stanford, Cal.: Stanford University Press, 1994), pp. 276--;79.
So what was it you said they didn't want to do ---
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Originally Posted by ChiGeekGuest
The Slave States resisted assimilation into the Free United States for over a century.
You might want to re-think that idea. In the end they married (signed the contract) with no way out, no divorce could be had. Do you call that freedom? Do you call that free States? I don't.
Crittenden-Johnson Resolution AL 'resolution of war' July 1861?
"The war was fought not for "overthrowing or interfering with the rights or established institutions of those States," but to "defend and maintain the supremacy of the Constitution and to preserve the Union." The war would end when the seceding states returned to the Union with slavery being intact."
And divorcing didn't mean they had to give up the way to make economical progress.
It was decided by those [11] States present at the Constitutional Convention that same year [Assembled May 14, 1787] that the importation of slaves shall not be prohibited by the legislature of the u.s. until the year 1808, which was agreed.
N.H. Mas., Con. Md, N.C., S.C., Geo: ... ay
N.J. Pa. Del. Virga ... no
[ayes --- 7; noes --- 4]
And yet article 6 of the Northwest Ordinance did prohibit, voted on that same year by the Southern States; explain that one.
Last edited by Ellis Bell; 07-14-2021 at 10:54 PM..
What does one have to do to legally obtain one of these statues?
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