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Old 12-28-2020, 11:29 PM
Status: "It Can't Rain All The Time" (set 2 days ago)
 
Location: North Pacific
15,755 posts, read 7,562,458 times
Reputation: 2576

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cruz Azul Guy View Post
Slavery was still the primary reason they seceded from the union. The topic is about confederate monuments and why they should be removed.
Or why they should not be removed ... I think Winterfall8324, just gave their opinion on that.
PS: It was Robert E Lee that said, to his men, "we are all Americans now". Guess that is still up for debate too, huh.

 
Old 12-28-2020, 11:53 PM
 
Location: Minneapolis, MN
10,244 posts, read 16,323,801 times
Reputation: 5308
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ellis Bell View Post
Or why they should not be removed ... I think Winterfall8324, just gave their opinion on that.
PS: It was Robert E Lee that said, to his men, "we are all Americans now". Guess that is still up for debate too, huh.
You love your red herrings don’t you? The question we are attempting to answer here is if Robert E Lee deserves to have statues which honor him as a hero in our public spaces. All of these other points you raise are besides the point.
 
Old 12-28-2020, 11:55 PM
 
Location: West of You
889 posts, read 271,692 times
Reputation: 363
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbgusa View Post
Exactly. They never would have been able to afford or physically maintain their "gone with the wind" life style without unpaid, forced labor.
people manage to get rich today without slaves. the industrial revolution would have made slaves cost prohibitive eventually
 
Old 12-28-2020, 11:55 PM
Status: "It Can't Rain All The Time" (set 2 days ago)
 
Location: North Pacific
15,755 posts, read 7,562,458 times
Reputation: 2576
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cruz Azul Guy View Post
You love your red herrings don’t you? The question we are attempting to answer here is if Robert E Lee deserves to have statues which honor him as a hero in our public spaces. All of these other points you raise are besides the point.
They are the point

Do you really want people to know and understand Robert E Lee's statement to his men; seeing his statue? I think not.

There is a whole story to be told, not just a part of one.


PS: "we are all Americans now", should appear on the monument

Last edited by Ellis Bell; 12-28-2020 at 11:57 PM.. Reason: added ps
 
Old 12-29-2020, 12:01 AM
 
Location: West of You
889 posts, read 271,692 times
Reputation: 363
Quote:
Originally Posted by green_mariner View Post
When I started thinking about certain things, I found a bit of irony. Most of the persons I saw flying the Confederate flag, or wearing Confederate flag shirts, they didn't look like the kind of people who came from the Southern nobility. It was mainly.........

1) Individuals who fit the "redneck" stereotype.
2) Individuals who lived in working class neighborhoods (or on occasion, individuals who came from working poor backgrounds).

This was the rule, at least where I lived. I hardly ever saw middle upper class Whites sport any kind of Confederate cloth. I don't say this to disparage anyone who comes from working class or working poor backgrounds. I am just giving an account of what I grew up seeing around me, and wondering about why that was.
ignorant insecure hillbillies seem to enjoy racism. they feel better about themselves. people who have self esteem and average iqs dont need to pick on people.

these guys are a dying breed
 
Old 12-29-2020, 12:16 AM
 
46,889 posts, read 25,860,181 times
Reputation: 29354
Quote:
Originally Posted by Winterfall8324 View Post
He was a good man I was told.
Meh. A harsh slavemaster, even by the standards of the time. Very much in favor of sending the slaves he oversaw off to other workplaces. Which of course broke up families, but - not his problem, right?
 
Old 12-29-2020, 12:18 AM
 
46,889 posts, read 25,860,181 times
Reputation: 29354
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ellis Bell View Post
It was Robert E Lee that said, to his men, "we are all Americans now". Guess that is still up for debate too, huh.
He also wrote "I think it wiser not to keep open the sores of war but to follow the examples of those nations who endeavored to obliterate the marks of civil strife, to commit to oblivion the feelings engendered", but hey - the Daughters of the Confederacy needed a coping mechanism rather than admitting that grandpa fought for a really bad cause, so...
 
Old 12-29-2020, 12:36 AM
Status: "It Can't Rain All The Time" (set 2 days ago)
 
Location: North Pacific
15,755 posts, read 7,562,458 times
Reputation: 2576
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ellis Bell View Post
Or why they should not be removed ... I think Winterfall8324, just gave their opinion on that.
PS: It was Robert E Lee that said, to his men, "we are all Americans now". Guess that is still up for debate too, huh.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dane_in_LA View Post
He also wrote "I think it wiser not to keep open the sores of war but to follow the examples of those nations who endeavored to obliterate the marks of civil strife, to commit to oblivion the feelings engendered", but hey - the Daughters of the Confederacy needed a coping mechanism rather than admitting that grandpa fought for a really bad cause, so...
Still arguing the politics of the day I see ---

Here's an idea, put "we are all Americans now" on the base of that Statue, then tear that bad boy down. That's what you're up to anyway.
 
Old 12-29-2020, 04:53 AM
 
Location: Where my bills arrive
19,139 posts, read 16,970,121 times
Reputation: 15493
Quote:
Originally Posted by Veritas Lux Mea View Post
people manage to get rich today without slaves. the industrial revolution would have made slaves cost prohibitive eventually
Ah the old "the industrial revolution would have made the institution obsolete", maybe in another 100 years. Old times there are not forgotten and the South would have continued in the same way for another century. Even with slavery illegal the Jim Crow South ensured that those former slaves were treated not much better with little to no opportunity to escape from it .

But as this discussion is on trophies of the Lost Cause its time for them to be relegated to a museum with the rest of the relics of this chapter in history.
 
Old 12-29-2020, 05:05 AM
 
4,149 posts, read 2,444,860 times
Reputation: 6493
Actually industrialization in the south after the Civil War resulted in a new form of slavery: convict leasing. By passing a host of Jim Crow laws, Blacks were arrested and unable to pay bail or fines, were leased by the government to businesses ranging from factories, to the railroads to farms. Convict leasing was huge, hundreds of thousands were swept up into the system.

Slavery by Another Name: The Re-Enslavement of Black Americans from the Civil War to World War II is an excellent read. Its also available as a video.
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