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Old 11-17-2020, 02:25 PM
 
Location: NC
11,208 posts, read 8,264,953 times
Reputation: 12412

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rachel976 View Post
No I don’t. All my Republican friends voted for him, and every last one is very upset about the fraud involved. I have only one Democrat friend, and we have agreed not to discuss it. That is because she, like you, comes across that she is right and I just can’t “see the light.” It’s insulting to my intelligence, so the only way we maintain a relationship is to avoid the topic. That would be my suggestion for you, in the situation you’re asking about.

As far as Trump bombastic style, I don’t like it. Sometimes he says things that make me cringe. But he’s made a lot of very good decisions, and the alternative to him was a far-left Harris. (Biden won’t last a year.) I vote based on policies, not personality.
That's fair, and I could have a respectful debate with you on why I disagree with the bolded. To me, personality is not everything, but it matters. I know that you might disagree, but my observation is that several critical alliances were damaged by his personality.

I also believe that his mantra of "never admit you're wrong" is part of the root issue of this discussion.

Just to put it out there, I agree with Trump on many policies and issues:

-He was right in understanding what his base was upset about (why he beat Hillary in the EC0
-Even though his claim that Pfizer was his success, it probably is true that under Biden, the vaccine would not have been fast tracked (time will tell if that holds up to be a good or bad thing, I think and hope it stays good)
-I ALWAYS value both sides of the more vs less regulation debate. It is necessary and important from both perspectives.


Just a few.

I don't think, however, that name-calling other leaders is helpful, I don't think it is accurate to villify the media to the extent he does, I don't think anyone can believe him when he flip flops on people (they are the best, they are losers), I don't think his portrayal of the military as losers is good, and I don't think his portrayal that the Seals were lying to protect Obama is accurate,

Just a few....
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Old 11-17-2020, 02:27 PM
 
Location: Meridian Township, MI
262 posts, read 162,821 times
Reputation: 621
My husband and I agree there really isn't any arguing possible.

Reasoning, logic, charts, references, history, Jesus teachings, reality - nothing will sink in and only make believers and supporters more angry. They'll have their own charts and facts all ready, even if you find flawed or just wrong.

I am the only democrat in my family (AL & TX). My oldest best friend is republican. My husband is democratic. All my new best friends, and most all my neighbors are Democrats. My new family on my husband's side are all democrats.

So I've decided to take the humor approach. I like the SNL joke, "so you ordered a burrito, but got a chalupa --not so different - both are old white guys."

But it is time to move forward. The beliefs that came from the 70M are not going away, at least not now. I think in due time, the full can of worms will come out anyway, and we can see it playing out by the minute here. We'll see if a meltdown occurs in the Whitehouse. I'm so grateful for late night humor writers.

Soon enough people can decide if they made a mistake or not - themselves. We just can't tell them how to think, though. It really is just like banging your head against a brick wall. Fun to try, but seems to just make things worse.

Last edited by PacificaViews; 11-17-2020 at 02:44 PM..
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Old 11-17-2020, 02:40 PM
 
Location: on the wind
23,084 posts, read 18,469,364 times
Reputation: 74701
I don't know anyone who is intentionally that blind.
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Old 11-17-2020, 02:43 PM
 
18,556 posts, read 7,329,249 times
Reputation: 11366
Quote:
Originally Posted by Myghost View Post
Honest question: How do you interract with someone who still believes that Trump won the election?
A normal person would talk about something else, since there are no publicly available FACTS capable of convincing either one of you to change his opinion.
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Old 11-17-2020, 02:47 PM
 
18,556 posts, read 7,329,249 times
Reputation: 11366
Quote:
How do you convince someone how crazy it is to believe that all the courts, all the news media, all of our allies, and all of the states are able to manage a conspiracy JUST to get Trump out of office?
How do I convince someone how crazy it is to imagine that, if fraudulent votes were counted or if software were programmed to distort the tally, the courts or our allies or the media would have to be involved?
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Old 11-17-2020, 02:48 PM
 
18,556 posts, read 7,329,249 times
Reputation: 11366
Quote:
Originally Posted by Myghost View Post
OK, this is helpful If that's how you feel then What if it was your spouse, sibling, parent or other? What would you do? How would you engage with them if you wanted to continue to do so?.

My thoughts on the comparison, but not really the point:
Here's the difference. It was proven that Russia did, and contintues to interfere with our election.
No, it wasn't proven.
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Old 11-17-2020, 02:48 PM
 
Location: West Palm Beach, FL
17,457 posts, read 6,784,373 times
Reputation: 16340
Quote:
Originally Posted by Myghost View Post
Another good example. Is it really condescending to point out the facts? I guess if you are so insecure in your own beliefs, I might seem that way. (Now THAT might have been condescending.)

But Rachael, honestly, if I'm so wrong, how come you, Trump or any of his supporters can't show me some evidence? I pointed at the person who gave a list of bad facts that are easily disproven.

Maybe you can tell me Rachel, how can you address someone like Rowingfriend without seeming condescending. Either they are intentionally lying, or blatantly ignorant of the facts. Read what he/she wrote, and tell me a better way to address them. That is REALLY the point of this entire discussion. Surely you don't agree with every "fact" they posted, I only called out one of them. Help me out here, if YOU are SINCERE.

I can ignore RowingFriend, but I choose not to ignore people closer to me. And I'm a "he", for what it's worth. Doesn't really matter in context though.
They're so easily disproven, yet you haven't disproven anything. You are consistently one of the most disingenuous posters on this forum, and that's saying something. I have a lot more respect for the far left wing extremists who post here and dispense with the charade "I'm a moderate" and "I'm reasonable." You aren't either one of those things so stop pretending otherwise.
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Old 11-17-2020, 02:49 PM
 
Location: In the reddest part of the bluest state
5,752 posts, read 2,771,142 times
Reputation: 4925
OP, it's a YOU problem. There is nothing you can say or do to change this person's mind so you just have to accept it, change the subject and move on. One of the most charitable, upright and moral people I know is a hard core trumper. I can't figure it out and I want to say to her that he is against everything you stand for, but I don't. I still respect her other qualities and if she brings it up, I nod and say sure for a while then change the subject.
No harm no foul.
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Old 11-17-2020, 02:50 PM
 
56,989 posts, read 35,122,003 times
Reputation: 18824
Thankfully, I don’t have to interact with delusional people. And most of my underlings here are Trump supporters. That said, I banned political talk around here about 5 years ago. It was getting outta hand.
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Old 11-17-2020, 02:52 PM
 
Location: NC
11,208 posts, read 8,264,953 times
Reputation: 12412
Quote:
Originally Posted by hbdwihdh378y9 View Post
How do I convince someone how crazy it is to imagine that, if fraudulent votes were counted or if software were programmed to distort the tally, the courts or our allies or the media would have to be involved?
Agree on this point.

Do you really think that you could convince all these entities, without exception, to go along with such a conspiracy? Do you really believe Donald Trump more than all those people, and more than all the people who he said were the greatest, but then suddently stoppped supporting them the first time they went out of lock-step?

I think you and I see the same impossibilities, we just think it's committed from a different side. You believe Millions of people are lying and I'm saying one is, and he's done a good job convincing others to believe him. Those who do are often the type who don't believe science, history, education or anything. How convenient.
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