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Old 12-19-2020, 06:25 PM
 
14,489 posts, read 6,078,295 times
Reputation: 6842

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Quote:
Originally Posted by legalsea View Post
Let us remember: the Trumpets that infest this forum are not representative of rational people. They are drinking the Kool Aid, and paying out money to their Lord Trump.



Yet, rational people realize that the hospitals are truly running out of ICU beds, and out of health care professionals. Sure, you can set up beds in a parking lot adjacent to the hospital, but you need workers to care for those patients.



We are living through a major pandemic. I had hoped to live out my life (I'm 65 with Type One diabetes) without doing so, although I did live through several before, including polio. But I face life as it happens, instead of yapping that nothing is wrong.



Pandemics are dangerous not only for the health of people, but for those not infected. Here in Fort Worth, ICU beds are becoming very limited for non-Covid patients. Some areas are literally out of any beds, so the doctors, already under stress, must make 'death panel like' decisions (remember when Death Panels was the thing with Conservatives?). Yet, citizens are still having heart attacks, strokes and having car accidents. But if there are no beds?


Stupid people are always around. We had them during the Spanish Flu of 1918, which started in Kansas. Back then you had 'anti mask' leagues, and other nonsense. Most of them woke up when the flu began to kill thousands per day.



Wait: we now are averaging 3000 per day.



We are surrounded by idiots, claiming that Mr. Trump won an election he lost, yet also claiming that the pandemic is harmless.
the vaccine is here

in a few months the people that want to be vaccinated will be


then restrictions will be lifted.



There is not going to be a "new normal"


simple as that
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Old 12-19-2020, 06:55 PM
 
19,573 posts, read 8,491,960 times
Reputation: 10096
Quote:
Originally Posted by suzy_q2010 View Post
There have been isolated case reports of reinfections, confirmed by finding viruses from two clinical episodes with RNA sufficiently different to mean two separate infections. Here is one such case.

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/l...764-7/fulltext

And more:

https://www.the-scientist.com/news-o...re-event-68089
The second article is conjecture based on symptoms. It is the kind of wild speculation that justifies the skepticism that more and more people are demonstrating towards the presentation of this whole situation.

Your first link is interesting and warrants being investigated further. That being said, the authors describe a number of potential alternative explanations beside re-infection.

One such line of thought was that the second version of the virus could have evolved 'in vivo' (in the body of the infected person) from the first version, which gives recognition to the possibility that this second version as a different version of the virus. Also, since in this scenario the second version of the virus would have been introduced into the subject by the first infection, it would not be a reinfection. Both of these possible complications raise doubts and questions about our understanding of what is actually happening here.

There were other possibilities mentioned as well. And I am sure they would be happy to admit that list of potential alternative explanations is not complete or conclusive.

Also, this is just one case, and the authors cite two other similar cases in other parts of the world. Even if one of these cases was to be definitively demonstrated to be an actual case of reinfection, that may very well be a highly unusual anomoly - an exception. One data point of this sort would not justify any broader interpretation. And this study - interesting though it is - does not clearly warrant even that at this point.

But I hope there is more work done so that we can get a better understanding of what exactly is going on in these sorts of situations going forward.
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Old 12-19-2020, 07:01 PM
 
Location: Georgia, USA
37,032 posts, read 41,094,361 times
Reputation: 44970
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spartacus713 View Post
The second article is conjecture based on symptoms. It is the kind of wild speculation that justifies the skepticism that more and more people are demonstrating towards the presentation of this whole situation.

Your first link is interesting and warrants being investigated further. That being said, the authors describe a number of potential alternative explanations beside re-infection.

One such line of thought was that the second version of the virus could have evolved 'in vivo' (in the body of the infected person) from the first version, which gives recognition to the possibility that this second version as a different version of the virus. Also, since in this scenario it would been introduced into the subject by the first infection, it would not be a reinfection. Both of these possible complications raise doubts and questions about our understanding of what is actually happening here.

There were other possibilities mentioned as well. And I am sure they would be happy to admit that list of potential alternative explanations is not complete or conclusive.

Also, this is just one case, and the authors cite two other similar cases in other parts of the world. Even if one of these cases was to be definitively demonstrated to be an actual case of reinfection, that may very well be a highly unusual anomoly - an exception. One data point of this sort would not justify any broader interpretation. And this study - interesting though it is - does not clearly warrant even that at this point.

But I hope there is more work done so that we can get a better understanding of what exactly is going on in these sorts of situations going forward.
Yes, reinfections are rare. I said that already.

But there is genetic evidence that it happens, with the second viral isolate being too different to have evolved from the first. There is also the negative test between the two episodes.
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Old 12-19-2020, 07:22 PM
 
19,573 posts, read 8,491,960 times
Reputation: 10096
Quote:
Originally Posted by suzy_q2010 View Post
Yes, reinfections are rare. I said that already.

But there is genetic evidence that it happens, with the second viral isolate being too different to have evolved from the first. There is also the negative test between the two episodes.
The authors spoke to that situation in the Lancet article that you linked above. They stated that it was in fact a possibility. They did not believe that this was very likely, but they did not rule it out as a possibility.

As far as the negative (PCR) tests between the two episodes, this might be an excellent point to observe that these tests are inconsistent in their reliability at best. They are notorious for false positives and false negatives. Maybe the subject was actually positive all along. There is no way to be sure about that at this point.

In other words, this is good work by these guys, but it is not conclusive. They do not know for sure and in fact they did not say they were certain about this being an actual case of reinfection in their analysis.
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Old 12-19-2020, 07:57 PM
 
7,759 posts, read 3,858,272 times
Reputation: 8846
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdaelectro View Post
Here's an idea: Why don't all the control freak hypochondriacs, that are so afraid of getting this, just stay home with their masks, and let the rest of those that are still sane in society go on with their lives?

Because all of you are clogging up the hospitals so bad, that they have no personnel to deal with things like traffic accidents and heart attacks.
Do it

Nobody is stopping you
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Old 12-19-2020, 08:00 PM
 
7,759 posts, read 3,858,272 times
Reputation: 8846
Quote:
Originally Posted by dashrendar4454 View Post
the vaccine is here

in a few months the people that want to be vaccinated will be


then restrictions will be lifted.



There is not going to be a "new normal"


simple as that
Delusions of grandeur

We're never going back to how things were

"Simple as that"

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Old 12-19-2020, 08:13 PM
 
19,573 posts, read 8,491,960 times
Reputation: 10096
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tencent View Post
Delusions of grandeur

We're never going back to how things were

"Simple as that"

Are you someone who wants everyone to live out their lives in fear and in hiding, mandated to wear face-diapers for the rest of their lives, including you?
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Old 12-19-2020, 08:58 PM
 
Location: Middle of the valley
48,436 posts, read 34,636,835 times
Reputation: 73585
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spartacus713 View Post
Are you someone who wants everyone to live out their lives in fear and in hiding, mandated to wear face-diapers for the rest of their lives, including you?
Those poor doctors and nurses wearing face diapers all these decades. One has to wonder how they ever survived.
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Old 12-19-2020, 09:05 PM
 
2,770 posts, read 2,594,340 times
Reputation: 3048
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikala43 View Post
Those poor doctors and nurses wearing face diapers all these decades. One has to wonder how they every survived.
You must know, right? Are you in the medical field in your off time?
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Old 12-19-2020, 09:08 PM
 
8,093 posts, read 3,420,524 times
Reputation: 5609
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spartacus713 View Post
Forget the new strain for a minute. If you have to go back and get additional shots of this 'vaccine' every three months or so, how effective is this 'vaccine' with the current strain? And some of the experts have said that even after getting this 'vaccine,' you need to keep wearing a mask afterwards and social distancing, apparently indefinitely, forever. What the hell kind of 'vaccine' is this supposed to be?
Very good question. Many want the vaccine to be mandatory.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frostnip View Post
What do you mean, what happened? Influenza is also going around. The figures are much lower than usual, as you'd expect being that the Covid precautions are as effective or even moreso when it comes to flu transmission. More people got flu shots this year than typical, too. Schools are one of the big drivers of flu transmission and many of them are currently some degree of virtual.

On a purely anecdotal note, I haven't been sick since March, and usually I'm a magnet for respiratory infections.
If the restrictions are working against the flu (even though tests on masks prior to 2020 said masks don't prevent the spread of the flu), then why are the covid numbers going up?
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