Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Bush's decision to go into Iraq was what did the damage.
(The entirely cooked up WMD excuse was fabricated up by the CIA, every nation's government pretty much knows about this, they aren't stupid)
The CIA and PNAC zionists had already planned the Iraq invasion before 9/11.
The real culprit in all of this is Israel and their mafia-like influence over our government.
Israel wanted Saddam gone. They also want Assad gone, but that isn't going too well.
I agree with you here.
The Zionists have also been pushing for years for us to attack Iran.
We will spend all our blood and treasure while they do nothing like the welfare leech they are.
Thank you! These were good guys in a terrifying situation. They made a terrible mistake but it was done out of fear, not because they were heartless murders. They deserve to be given the benefit of the doubt.
And if it was our country invaded and your kids were killed by the invaders accidentally you would pardon them?
I vote none. A president can pardon whoever he wants to pardon whether you like it or not.
People get pardons because they've been convicted of something. Do you goofy liberals think Obama pardoned a bunch of choir boys? Obama, by comparison, granted clemency 1,927 times during his eight-year tenure, including 212 pardons and 1,715 commutations.
As of Nov. 23, Trump had granted clemency 44 times, including 28 pardons and 16 commutations. That’s the lowest total of any president since at least William McKinley, who served at the turn of the 20th century.
Some of President Trump's pardons seem good. For instance, Micheal Tedesco, convicted of drug trafficking in 1990. President Obama actually pardoned him in 2017, but due to a clerical error, his conviction for fraud was not included. President Trump fixed that.
However, while some of Mr. Trump's pardons are consistent with the original purpose of a President Pardon, some of his latest pardons seem to be as 'payoff' for the persons' not cooperating with Federal investigators (Stone, Manafort, even Charles Kushner, given he is his son-in-law's father).
Indeed, if he continues (as I expect) to 'pardon' his close associates, then a case may be made that he is abusing his pardon power. While we do not have 'settled law', I imagine that the Court will take a dim view of a President awarding those that refused to testify or provide evidence against him.
Let me be clear: I watched the Nixon investigation closely (I was a Nixon supporter until the smoking gun tapes). President Nixon had instructed some of the people involved to 'stonewall' the investigators regarding Mr. Nixon's role in the cover-up.
IF (note "if") President Nixon had promised said people that if convicted of obstruction of justice or other Federal crime, then he would issue a Presidential Pardon, and he then followed through, I think the US Supreme Court would have declared such pardons invalid, since it would have been a conspiracy involving the President and those pardoned.
Of course, as I have said before, Mr. Nixon was a very capable attorney. He would have recognized that he could not pardon his co-conspirators without the pardons subsequently being declared null and void. Mr. Nixon also, I believe, but can't prove, that he could not pardon himself, based on the language of the Constitution (the word 'grant', back when it was written, meant to bestow upon another; not upon oneself).
With President Trump, we are not dealing with a capable lawyer, or even a person willing to listen to legal advise. Mr. Trump is keen on 'loyalty' to him: keep your mouth shut, and I will pardon you.
So, it might give Mr. Trump's MAGA supporters some glee (why, I don't know) for Mr. Trump to pardon people like Mr. Stone and Mr. Manafort, but, in the end, it may well be the worse possible move for Mr. Trump to make.
For those Trump supporters that read this far (unlikely, but who knows?), I will give one example:
Suppose some person had irrefutable knowledge about Hunter Biden's laptop, or some other clearly illegal activity by the President's son.
If President Biden offered to said person that 'you keep quiet about Hunter, and, if you are convicted of perjury or obstruction of justice, I will issue a Presidential pardon", would you be okay with that?
For my money, it was Kushner or the Blackwater killers
If you are not familiar with the Kushner case, he hired a hooker to seduce his wife's husband and recorded the encounter. He then attempted to use the recording to blackmail his sister and her husband to not testify against him in a pending trial.
Chris Christie prosecuted the case and called it one of the most loathsome, disgusting crimes he had seen.
Manafort and Stone are no angels either, but this one was worse.
I knew it was a VERY BIASED "poll" when I did NOT see "none of the above".
If you truly want a FAIR comparison, list ALL the pardons DEM presidents gave alongside Trump's.
I won't hold my breathe.
Do you think your example of Kushner was worse than obama pardoning a deserter, who could and SHOULD have been executed, during a time of war?
Or bill clinton's, "Rich owed $48 million in taxes and was charged with 51 counts for tax fraud, was pardoned of tax evasion. He was required to pay a $1 million fine and waive any use of the pardon as a defense against any future civil charges that were filed against him in the same case.' Bill Clinton pardon controversy - Wikipedia
For my money, it was Kushner or the Blackwater killers
If you are not familiar with the Kushner case, he hired a hooker to seduce his wife's husband and recorded the encounter. He then attempted to use the recording to blackmail his sister and her husband to not testify against him in a pending trial.
Chris Christie prosecuted the case and called it one of the most loathsome, disgusting crimes he had seen.
Manafort and Stone are no angels either, but this one was worse.
All these pardons are repulsive, but the Blackwater killers is the worst, Trump loves pardoning those who are convicted of killing brown people. He is a very sick human being.
I don't care if these guys were good or bad, anything Trump does that pisses Democrats off is alright with me, keep it up Trump.
Sheep mentality
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
