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Basically you are saying the only sane people in America are apathetic - apathy is normal, you imply.
Nah, it's possible to hold quite strong views, and live in a way that upholds them, without being hateful toward those who believe differently or live differently, and without demonizing those who believe differently or live differently.
Quote:
Originally Posted by katharsis
I try to avoid "mind reading", but what I think Frostnip was saying is that the EXTREMISTS (and I mean WAY extreme) are borderline crazy, if not certifiably so.
On a scale of 1 - 10, 1 being ultra-liberal and 10 being ultra-conservative (or reverse that, if you like!), in my opinion, anyone who falls between a 1.5 and a 9.5 is "sane" (when it comes to political opinions, at least), but the 1.0's and the 10.0's are those who think that the only good Republican is a dead Republican or the only good Democrat is a dead Democrat.
(Personally, however, I try very hard not to debate those who are between a 2.5 and an 8.5 using the above scale because when I do, I end thinking that I am talking with someone who is so set in their opinions it is simply impossible to have a civil discussion with them -- and, again, I am talking about both "extreme liberals" and "extreme conservatives". And, btw, I think those that resort to name-calling instead of being reasonable and, if applicable, citing facts in support of their opinions are probably not very intelligent.)
Yeah, more or less. I mean, as an illustration, we have a thread here called I Hate Be Negative On Christmas Day But Democrats Are The Real Enemy And Need To Be Destroyed "Merry Christmas". That's the kind of thing I'm talking about. At the point where you really believe that 40 million of the people in your country are your enemy and need to be "destroyed," the wheels have come off your worldview. I'm talking about the kind of people who either honestly believe, or are willing to use rhetoric indicating, that millions of people who hold political views that differ from theirs are part of some big conspiracy, want to bring down America, have nefarious motivations, etc. as opposed to...just have a different view of the world, have different ideas about what would be best or most effective, prioritize different values. This "us vs. them" mindset that's becoming prevalent is really unhealthy for both the individual and the nation.
Take abortion, for example. I'm staunchly pro-choice. But I can intellectually understand why a person might believe that a fetus has personhood and needs to be protected - like, if someone really believed abortion is murder, of course they'd want it to be illegal. I disagree, but I can understand why they want what they want. I don't need to ascribe some wicked motivation to them, like "They hate women having freedom!" or whatever. Now, are there some whackadoo fringe incels who hate women having freedom? Oh, I'm sure. But that's not representative of most pro-life people. Most people believe what they do either because they feel a conviction it's the decent thing, or they were raised with a belief and have never really examined it.
I think the other-demonizing, dogmatic far left and far right have more in common, in methods, practices, and worldview, than the portion of the population that's able to see some nuance, appreciate the value of a variety of views and voices, respect an opponent, etc.
Our whole government system is designed with checks and balances - it's intended to operate slowly and incorporate a push-pull of different ideas and approaches.
Essentially what happened is the Democratic Party (not the voters, but the party leaders) gave up on organized labor as corporations provide more campaign donations than labor unions do.
So both parties at the leadership level are economically conservative now, so the culture war is where the real divide is at the leadership level now, with issues like abortion and gay rights
Increasing government spending every year, trillions of dollars in debt = economically conservative?
Since time immemorial---or at least until 2008---liberals were the free-spirited, all-accepting, "come as you are" hippies, while the conservatives were the stodgy, stuffy, tradition-adhering rule-followers.
In the recent decade, and ESPECIALLY this year, this completely reversed. Today, liberals did a complete 180, and started hating freedom, both of movement and of expression. They ENJOY being locked down, wearing masks, and isolating themselves from everyone except their live-in household, all in the name of worshiping the Covid god. And let's not forget the cancel culture: "you're either with us or you're the enemy".
Equivalently, conservatives are the independent freedom-lovers now. They're willing to accept anyone into their ranks, provided that the newcomer loves America and the freedoms it gives. They also fervently embrace personal freedoms, like being able to go out and socialize, as well as the personal choice to stay home and social distance. Some even support legalizing marijuana, a long-time prerogative of liberals.
Discuss!
Conservatives haven't changed. They are still individualistic. They are against government telling them what to do.
Liberals haven't changed. Its just there are very few like Jonathan Turley. Most of the left has become progressives-totalitarian, collectivists.
A lot of liberals now sound more like right-wing libertarians with their "muh private company" excuses for Big Tech.
Some companies are more equal than others. For instance conservative or Christian companies are not allowed to be quite as free as Google or Facebook.
The left have become fascistic. More so than the church ladies of past that they used to mock, at least those ladies knew what they stood for. The left just keeps pushing and pushing it further with no end in sight and no logic to support the craziness.
Forget what has happened to free speech in the arts. Cancel culture. It really stands out in comedy, which was always allowed to push the envelope. The left supported free speech by artists until recently.
Since time immemorial---or at least until 2008---liberals were the free-spirited, all-accepting, "come as you are" hippies, while the conservatives were the stodgy, stuffy, tradition-adhering rule-followers.
In the recent decade, and ESPECIALLY this year, this completely reversed. Today, liberals did a complete 180, and started hating freedom, both of movement and of expression. They ENJOY being locked down, wearing masks, and isolating themselves from everyone except their live-in household, all in the name of worshiping the Covid god. And let's not forget the cancel culture: "you're either with us or you're the enemy".
Equivalently, conservatives are the independent freedom-lovers now. They're willing to accept anyone into their ranks, provided that the newcomer loves America and the freedoms it gives. They also fervently embrace personal freedoms, like being able to go out and socialize, as well as the personal choice to stay home and social distance. Some even support legalizing marijuana, a long-time prerogative of liberals.
Discuss!
Big business and corporations seem to be heading the democrats, while small guy and unions are slowly heading to republicans.
Well, it's you darned liberals and your mask wearing, freedom hating ways that are going to keep us from breaking the national record for deaths during a pan- er plandemic.
There was some indication that COVID deaths were undercounted in March and April. However, they are grossly overcounted since then. Regardless, it doesn't appear that all-cause mortality will be appreciably higher in 2020 than what was anticipated with an aging and unhealthy population. It certainly will not reach whatever we're calling a COVID death.
Since time immemorial---or at least until 2008---liberals were the free-spirited, all-accepting, "come as you are" hippies, while the conservatives were the stodgy, stuffy, tradition-adhering rule-followers.
In the recent decade, and ESPECIALLY this year, this completely reversed. Today, liberals did a complete 180, and started hating freedom, both of movement and of expression. They ENJOY being locked down, wearing masks, and isolating themselves from everyone except their live-in household, all in the name of worshiping the Covid god. And let's not forget the cancel culture: "you're either with us or you're the enemy".
Equivalently, conservatives are the independent freedom-lovers now. They're willing to accept anyone into their ranks, provided that the newcomer loves America and the freedoms it gives. They also fervently embrace personal freedoms, like being able to go out and socialize, as well as the personal choice to stay home and social distance. Some even support legalizing marijuana, a long-time prerogative of liberals.
Discuss!
The liberals has become what they hated in the 60’s, they had become the establishment, the elitist, pro large corporations and anti small business. They are so no longer the free thinking individuals they were years ago.
The collectivist Asian countries look like they are doing better than the west? If that were true, than people in western nations would be flocking to far eastern countries. Lefties would have packed their bags and moved there already. The opposite is true actually.
This is a foolish idea, and concept.
Countries work for their people, not for individuals who consider themselves global citizens.
Korea works for Koreans, Japan works for Japanese, Vietnam works for Vietnamese, etc.
Once someone immigrates to these nations, it is no longer a 'collectivist' country (whatever that means).
But then again you don't see America as a country, you see it as an investment opportunity. And by your own admission, if you could afford a better life elsewhere, you would leave at a moments notice.
I guess you don't believe in America as a nation. You and many others.
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If that's not a major flip, then my name is Kommie-la Harris.
