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I think they should be kept out of the US entirely.
Yeah, why not keep them out altogether. Then the billions of dollars and thousands of jobs that they provide to the US economy can go to Canada, Australia and the UK instead (which is where all the Chinese students who want a degree from an English speaking country will go).
This is a real well thought out America first policy you got going here.
If they are hired, they are not students anymore. Period.
I see, so I've backed you into a corner and all you have left is this hair to split? So you're insinuating that they were honest innocent Chinese students but somewhere between graduation and their tenth year in tech they were recruited as spies? That's even worse! If Chinese employees are getting flipped along the way during their careers then we need to slam the door on ALL Chinese employment in tech, not just tighten up the University entryway.
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Originally Posted by Bettafish
And thieves are not necessarily spies.
99.998% of Chinese tech thieves are spies. End of story.
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Originally Posted by Bettafish
What you speculate is irrelevant, show me convicted Chinese students.
You're really parsing and back-pedaling now. Very legalistic of you. Very interesting. This conversation has nothing to do with Chinese students stealing IP WHILE they are students. The student is just the larva that later worms its way into industry which is their target. There's no interesting high tech IP for them to steal in academia. Academia is a joke in this field. Industry has the goods they want and the spies are slipped in as students.
Article 7 says "An organization or citizen shall support, assist in and cooperate in national intelligence work in accordance with the law and keep confidential the national intelligence work that it or he knows.“
There are many ways to interpret this statement, and we cannot conclude Chinese students are forced to be spies.
It may just mean they are obliged to keep confidential information they know.
I see, so I've backed you into a corner and all you have left is this hair to split? So you're insinuating that they were honest innocent Chinese students but somewhere between graduation and their tenth year in tech they were recruited as spies? That's even worse! If Chinese employees are getting flipped along the way during their careers then we need to slam the door on ALL Chinese employment in tech, not just tighten up the University entryway.
No you totally failed to argue anything.
You showed me zero cases of convicted Chinese students, and keep making false speculations.
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Originally Posted by Wee-Bey
99.998% of Chinese tech thieves are spies. End of story.
Show me the evidence, otherwise admit you are a liar.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wee-Bey
You're really parsing and back-pedaling now. Very legalistic of you. Very interesting. This conversation has nothing to do with Chinese students stealing IP WHILE they are students. The student is just the larva that later worms its way into industry which is their target. There's no interesting high tech IP for them to steal in academia. Academia is a joke in this field. Industry has the goods they want and the spies are slipped in as students.
They don't have to be US students to enter hi-tech industry. Many Indians and some Chinese came with an H1B visa directly from their home country. If Chinese students don't study in the US, more will come directly from China or UK, Canada, Australia, Europe...
The focus is students with F1 visa.
Here in Sammamish WA where it's 37% Asian, mostly Indian, most of our Indian neighbors are working in tech for Amazon and Microsoft, educated in India, They can't be making much less than their U.S. co-workers or they would not be able to afford the $800k houses.
In the Bay Area, they demand million dollar new homes after knocking American out of college seats which belong to Americans and then take our jobs. Admissions and hiring are no longer based on merit. Since they get away with it, they look at Americans as "untouchables", too bad they don't see how we see them. Think of Harris' attitude for an example.
No you totally failed to argue anything.
You showed me zero cases of convicted Chinese students,
Where did you learn to be so repetitive? Chinese students convicted of what? Bad hair? Dangerous driving habits? Stinking up the commons microwave? No so far we haven't tried to prosecute that ... but if we did we'd probably catch a future spy or ten. Duh. The issue is (for the umpteenth time) how the little kiddies blossom into something malicious after they're hired out of college.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bettafish
Show me the evidence, otherwise admit you are a liar.
Go try that on the City Data gullible but we both know that tech companies will never pursue prosecution against a Chinese national employee guilty of spying. Why? Most tech companies do business in China and are locked into a Faustian bargain with the devil they're selling to and getting ripped off by. IP theft is always an embarrassment and targeted companies will almost always keep it private rather than allow the market or their competition to see them as 'unsecure' or compromised. But of course you would already have known that which is why you so pompously and confidently demand to see proof of something you know will never be made public.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bettafish
They don't have to be US students to enter hi-tech industry. Many Indians and some Chinese came with an H1B visa directly from their home country. If Chinese students don't study in the US, more will come directly from China or UK, Canada, Australia, Europe...
The focus is students with F1 visa.
Blah blah save it. Most tech firms only hire new grads with a degree from an American university.
Where did you learn to be so repetitive? Chinese students convicted of what? Bad hair? Dangerous driving habits? Stinking up the commons microwave? No so far we haven't tried to prosecute that ... but if we did we'd probably catch a future spy or ten. Duh. The issue is (for the umpteenth time) how the little kiddies blossom into something malicious after they're hired out of college.
So you have no evidence, no conviction, but only hatred?
Fair enough.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wee-Bey
Go try that on the City Data gullible but we both know that tech companies will never pursue prosecution against a Chinese national employee guilty of spying. Why? Most tech companies do business in China and are locked into a Faustian bargain with the devil they're selling to and getting ripped off by. IP theft is always an embarrassment and targeted companies will almost always keep it private rather than allow the market or their competition to see them as 'unsecure' or compromised. But of course you would already have known that which is why you so pompously and confidently demand to see proof of something you know will never be made public.
OMG speak for yourself. I never know anything of the things you mentioned.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wee-Bey
Blah blah save it. Most tech firms only hire new grads with a degree from an American university.
It may be true that most companies prefer those who have experience in the US, but I have never seen any company claiming they require a US degree. In fact my manager is an immigrant and he got a degree in Europe.
Those who have a US graduate degree have an advantage in drawing the H1B lottery. That is true.
I don’t think of American universities serving Americans first as “affirmative action”. Our tax dollars help fund our public universities, so Americans most certainly deserve to both have a voice when it comes to how those tax dollars are used, and who they are used on.
No American university should exclude qualified American students in favor of admitting foreign students.
What if the American students aren’t qualified because their high schools were less than adequate or because they were never encouraged to study.
Article 7 says "An organization or citizen shall support, assist in and cooperate in national intelligence work in accordance with the law and keep confidential the national intelligence work that it or he knows.“
There are many ways to interpret this statement, and we cannot conclude Chinese students are forced to be spies.
It may just mean they are obliged to keep confidential information they know.
Here is the pt. You cannot conclude that Chinese students will never be forced to be spies. Beside, the students could be spies before or after they enrolled into school. At the end, if you want to know more, just ask Swalwell and his two "***-brothers." They can give you more info.
If you can read chinese (simpl.), you should know how CPP interprets law
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