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View Poll Results: How do you feel about the situation at the capital
Gleeful 37 5.17%
Justified 72 10.06%
A bit conflicted 54 7.54%
Sad 137 19.13%
Disgusted 485 67.74%
Other (please elaborate) 49 6.84%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 716. You may not vote on this poll

Closed Thread Start New Thread
 
Old 01-17-2021, 10:21 AM
 
26,553 posts, read 14,396,403 times
Reputation: 7411

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Quote:
Originally Posted by james112 View Post
Can someone explain how capitol security could not stop the rioters from entering, but they where able to remove the rioters once inside?
initially overpowered then able to gain control after reinforcements arrived. if you watch the timeline video you can hear that a call for reinforcements goes out after the breach.

 
Old 01-17-2021, 11:00 AM
 
Location: North America
4,430 posts, read 2,685,411 times
Reputation: 19315
The insurrectionists reveal themselves...

 
Old 01-17-2021, 11:13 AM
 
Location: *
13,242 posts, read 4,901,503 times
Reputation: 3461
Quote:
Originally Posted by silibran View Post
Yes.

The riot was at bottom about white supremacy and feelings of lost entitlement.

It is almost disorienting to hear white apologists say it was carried out by BLM and antifa people. Just look at the faces of the rioters to know who took part in it. And they carried weapons.
By the way, I meant to ask if you live here in the US? The reason why I ask is family members, friends, & acquaintances who live elsewhere tend not to have the 'blind spot' when it comes to this event.
 
Old 01-17-2021, 11:31 AM
 
12,905 posts, read 15,614,527 times
Reputation: 9393
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChiGeekGuest View Post
Agree it's disorienting for all the reasons you've mentioned.

It's also more than disturbing to consider the rapid acceleration to 'any means necessary' i.e. militant violence, when compared to the American Civil War.

Trump's Standoff began after the 2020 election in November, & quickly accelerated to the events on January 6, 2021.

While the American Civil War took years to bring about a military conflict.
Actually, Trump "Standoff" began well before the 2020 election. I'd argue that his start was the Birther movement against Obama, ramped up during his campaign, ramped up yet again with Charlottesville, etc. I believe he would have continued to try his veiled racism if he had won. Just keep everything at a simmer. With his election loss, he went full on conspiracy and then incitement.

Also,keep in mind that Trump was briefed/had access to all the domestic terror intel over the years. The stuff that John Q. Public is just now hearing about. He was fully aware of the pot that was about to boil over and, even knowing that, he ramped up his rhetoric.

Last edited by ChristineVA; 01-17-2021 at 11:50 AM..
 
Old 01-17-2021, 11:31 AM
 
51,619 posts, read 25,681,640 times
Reputation: 37806
Quote:
Originally Posted by silibran View Post
Yes.

The riot was at bottom about white supremacy and feelings of lost entitlement.

It is almost disorienting to hear white apologists say it was carried out by BLM and antifa people. Just look at the faces of the rioters to know who took part in it. And they carried weapons.
Nailed it.
 
Old 01-17-2021, 11:48 AM
 
Location: On the Beach
4,139 posts, read 4,513,448 times
Reputation: 10317
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnBoy64 View Post
LOL.....I like Jerry Jeff Walkers version
Yep - a classic. RIP Jerry.
 
Old 01-17-2021, 11:52 AM
 
104 posts, read 147,617 times
Reputation: 170
DIVERSITY OF CROWD? The strangest aspect of the Capital "occupation" was to my mind the diversity of the invading crowd. Some looked like a mob angry lunatics, dressed up in wild-man costumes, others shouting absurdities like "Trump invited us" etc. and those assaulting police and destroying property. These were the demonstrators that were re-labled as "terrorists" by many--perhaps with good reason. The media predictably focused on these "crazies" and seemed to down-play the average-looking people who were wandering about. These others, making up a fairly large part of the crowd, looked a lot like Capital tourists, chatting, takings pics of statues and oil portraits. They seem to be dressed normally. Possibly some agreed that the election was somehow "fixed" but I'd bet many of them DID NOT (sanity prevails). From my experience with civil disobedience and protest demonstrations (I lived in Berkeley, CA from 1963 to 1973 and witnessed first hand much of the violent political demonstrations), I know that many who join these assembles have come along just for the ride--they are tag-alongs. They are not radical ideologues or even necessarily part of the political Right. They are"lookyloos" who thought it would be cool to trespass as part of a larger mob. We hear much about detailed planning for this intrusion and inside complicity from Capital Cops and even members of Congress; These allegations should of course be investigated. But to my point, It doesn't take a master plan to convince a huge group to march down a street and try to enter a building, albeit the Capital of the United States. The dynamics of large groups imbues many participants of the group with a false sense of immunity, a "They can't arrest us all" mentality. That might be true when there aren't enough police, as was the case at the Capital. But it is NOT true when law enforcement is ready and waiting. Everyone CAN and WILL BE arrested and charged.
At present the FBI and other agencies are looking at thousands of photos and identifying many of the participants. My question is: Should these "Tourist trespassers" taking selfies and who have not done any physical violence and vandalism, should they be prosecuted with the same severity as those who shouted "Hang Pence"smashed the doors and windows, assaulted police, stole "souvenirs--laptops, etc.? Twenty years in jail for following a crowd into a building and walking around? My hope is that judicial reason will prevail. Give the naughty folks a spanking and the bad guys a few years time-out in the pokey the think over their actions and for the the very bad bad guys--lock'um up and throw away the key. The concept of Justice is not always simple, but we are a society of laws governing human behavior and without them no Civilization could not exist.
 
Old 01-17-2021, 12:20 PM
 
Location: North Idaho
726 posts, read 327,252 times
Reputation: 953
Quote:
Originally Posted by ambrichard View Post
My question is: Should these "Tourist trespassers" taking selfies and who have not done any physical violence and vandalism, should they be prosecuted with the same severity as those who shouted "Hang Pence"smashed the doors and windows, assaulted police, stole "souvenirs--laptops, etc.?
No. But as I understand it, just entering the U.S. Capitol in that circumstance is a felony. So that's the charge they should face. Of course, if they assaulted police, that's an additional (and serious) charge. If they were the ones smashing in windows, that's an additional charge. If they smashed the officer's head in with a fire extinguisher, that's murder and should be charged as such.
 
Old 01-17-2021, 12:43 PM
 
51,619 posts, read 25,681,640 times
Reputation: 37806
Curious.

If you are part of a crew robbing a bank, can you get off by claiming you were a "tourist trespasser?"
 
Old 01-17-2021, 12:49 PM
 
Location: *
13,242 posts, read 4,901,503 times
Reputation: 3461
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChristineVA View Post
Actually, Trump "Standoff" began well before the 2020 election. I'd argue that his start was the Birther movement against Obama, ramped up during his campaign, ramped up yet again with Charlottesville, etc. I believe he would have continued to try his veiled racism if he had won. Just keep everything at a simmer. With his election loss, he went full on conspiracy and then incitement.

Also,keep in mind that Trump was briefed/had access to all the domestic terror intel over the years. The stuff that John Q. Public is just now hearing about. He was fully aware of the pot that was about to boil over and, even knowing that, he ramped up his rhetoric.
I could likely agree with your argument that 'it started with the Birther movement ...' although if we all, the US, had just allowed him to disenfranchise half the American electorate by overturning the election results so that he 'won' ... if we had done so ... the Trump Standoff would not have been necessary ... & his own personal & private Tonton Macoute also would not have been necessary.

If the United States of America had allowed the Slaver States to continue owning selling & trading people as property, depending on their race, the American Civil War would not have been necessary.
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