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You mean the same congress members who embraced and supported the rioters last summer when it was only us ordinary people suffering through it? The same congress people who write bills to strip us of our liberties and threaten us with lethal violence if we fail to comply and surrender our freedoms? I have no sympathy for any of them anymore. They are not entitled to our respect. They are the cause of our nation's division and other problems. And the capitol building belongs to us not them alone.
I don`t recall the protesters being embraced and supported by congress members but that has nothing to do with domestic terrorists breaking into the capitol. I think you`ve gotten all the mileage you`re gonna get out of last years riots.
The press interviewed a young man who was standing with her. He had her blood on his hand. He stated that she was in the crowd, all of which were pressing forward. She was in front of him. The cops shouted for everyone to back off/retreat. Everyone did but her. That's when the cop fired. She was essentially right in front and above him and she fell back immediately after being shot and that's how he got her blood on him. He pretty much stated that she was the one who did not back off.
Easy to believe if you watch the videos she filmed if herself while in the way to the rally. She had anger issues.
How about they let the investigation unfold before deciding where fault lies? If the officer acted inappropriately, then let him suffer the consequences. If not, then the actions of the woman in question are 100% responsible for her own death.
What was he supposed to do ....unfurl a red carpet for her to the offices in that hall where the high ranking officials he was charged with protecting had been taken?
And I'm sure the police outside the building had warned the protesters to stay back as well. There were people ramming the door as the police stood right next to them and watched them doing it. The cops had been literally standing in front of the doorway the girl climbed into. The cop who shot her was hiding in a cubby like he was under fire in Vietnam, even though there were like 6-8 cops standing on the other side of the door that he knew were there because he had just talked to them a few seconds earlier.
You said "The cops shouted for everyone to back off/retreat. Everyone did but her."... Which is bull****. No one was backing off. But she was the only one who climbed up into the doorway, which was the doorway the police had been standing in front of 5 seconds earlier.
Furthermore, being told to back off isn't the same thing as being warned if you jump up into a doorway you will be shot immediately. Furthermore, most of the people in this thread have claimed that the cop didn't know there were cops on the other side in the doorway, which was a lie. And that he was afraid for his life. Which is a lie. Or something something about the girl's backpack. Which is bull****.
In any case, you guys don't care, so this conversation is pointless.
I'm not specifically defending this because there should and will be an investigation. Frankly, that it turns out there was another layer of defense between protestors and House members - security at the House Floor doors - leaves me uncomfortable about the decision to fire.
But there's nothing on that video to suggest the CP who fired knew other officers had arrived on the landing where the protestors stood. There should, of course, have been good central communication but the police response that day was chaotic.
From what I see the four CPs who'd just come up the steps never got close to the front. Instead still standing well behind the protestors two got into a conversation with someone who looked like a staff member. That's when Ashli went. At that time she was blocked from their vision by others starting to leave.
The man in what looks like an old army helmet who was standing close to the door probably was a protestor. He'd been there before the four CPs came up the steps. The CP helmets had "Police" written on them. It did look like there were a couple of other men in uniforms that had patches standing there who decided to leave. But who they were and what that was about is a mystery.
Both the witness near the girl (the one with blood on his hands) and House members in the House chamber said they heard warnings to get back. Those almost certainly came from the CPs pointing guns on the other side of the blockage. Like I said, those who'd just arrived were still talking to the staff member. With the mystery guys in a uniform with patches having no apparent role.
Last edited by EveryLady; 01-08-2021 at 10:00 AM..
What I did say was make a case that according to that Capitol police officer's mission statement he acted according to his job/role/task which resulted in a justified shooting to protect Congress members.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LordSquidworth
If I see a barricade with guys on the other side pointing guns at it I’m not going to try to get through.
The woman was a moron.
Look, I think he acted lawfully. And he definitely won't be charged with any crimes. I think the courts would say it was justified because he was just doing his job. And he was.
But that isn't what I'm talking about. I'm asking you, as a man, would you have shot her? Was there really no non-lethal alternatives when there are probably 10+ police officers standing within 15 feet, and there were several cops who had literally been standing right next to her for who knows how long, and were practically in arms-reach of her when she was shot.
You can justify it all you want, you can call her stupid, a criminal, a traitor, whatever you like, but it was wrong.
I understand I'm never going to change your mind, especially not after 60 pages of the same stupid conversation.
Anyone who believes the police did not respond appropriately when our leaders' lives were threatened by an out of control mob, some of whom had guns, pipe bombs, and Molotov cocktails, are you:
-against guns?
-against defending your castle?
-against self defense?
-against backing the blue?
Which is it?
Against murdering innocent people who are not threatening anyones life.
Look, I think he acted lawfully. And he definitely won't be charged with any crimes. I think the courts would say it was justified because he was just doing his job. And he was.
But that isn't what I'm talking about. I'm asking you, as a man, would you have shot her? Was there really no non-lethal alternatives when there are probably 10+ police officers standing within 15 feet, and there were several cops who had literally been standing right next to her for who knows how long, and were practically in arms-reach of her when she was shot.
You can justify it all you want, you can call her stupid, a criminal, a traitor, whatever you like, but it was wrong.
I understand I'm never going to change your mind, especially not after 60 pages of the same stupid conversation.
I've often asked questions like these when looking back on situations that I read about or see on the news that involve shootings. Really, couldn't you shoot them in the leg? Couldn't this have been done or that? It's very easy to think of all the things that would have been better, but when you are faced with a situation like that where there are many unknowns and you are overwhelmed, it is shoot or be killed yourself. Honestly, you are giving her a bit of a pass because she was female and and somewhat attractive, to boot. I think it's hardwired into us to look at someone like her and think "oh, she looks like my daughter, she's not serious."
But...chalk this up to chaos and the fog of war. She was the first one breaching the last line of defense before probably accessing the folks these people are there to protect. By all accounts, she was given warnings. She has a backpack on her back. There is NO WAY to know if she was armed and taking the time to figure that out has the potential for getting law enforcement killed. In hindsight, yeah, it was sad that she had to lose her life when she obviously felt that law enforcement wasn't going to go that far. I'm sure her entire family is devastated and I feel for them. But I just don't see that there was any other way for this officer to act. He could have acted with more restraint but then I think he would have been putting congress members and way more risk to do so.
I disagree... Someone broke into my home was currently inside my home while I and my family was sheltering in place in the bathroom. If someone proceeded to force their way through that bathroom door, I'm going to shoot. Imminent threat is already determined as they are not in the process of invading my home, they are already inside it. Armed or not, they are already a threat. If there is a group of invaders, their numbers alone is a threat armed or not.
I could only see your position if it were someone at my front door and have yet to breach my home. In this case, they have already breached my home (Capitol outer perimeter) forcing my family and I to shelter in place and are in the process of breaching that shelter (barricade). That's a threat period.
Guns don't kill people. People kill people. A person (mob) is more than capable of killing with or without a gun.
It's not an imminent threat. It was a protest. Why in the world would someone enter your home to protest?
The mob wasn't trying to kill anyone and you have no proof they were trying too. I get it, some at the protest did turn violent but it's about threatening a life.
Kent State ring a bell?
Last edited by Loveshiscountry; 01-08-2021 at 10:01 AM..
If you want to tell people, "If you would just comply, you wouldn't get shot", then it holds true, here, too.
The fire alarm was going off, police were telling people to leave. They are, at this point, calm. Not making a lot of noise. They are going out the door.
And then this girl, that I had not seen before, appears in the frame of the phone of the one who is livestreaming that I was watching. The reason I know it was this girl is because she stood out by her actions.
Everyone was quietly herding out the door. No one was shouting, no one was really talking. And then this girl shows up in frame, she's behind the crowd trying to get out the door. She looks around at the situation, and then? Starts yelling.
That is why I noticed her, because in the chat that I was in with this livestream, we thought it was over. We were saying "well that was stupid" (as in waste of time) because after the police side stepped to allow them up the stairs, they break through 2 doors, people are climbing the building, people are yelling and shouting, they get in, and then....a fire alarm goes off and they peacefully walk out of the building like school children during a fire drill? Really!?!?
Until she started yelling.
And she got them all riled up again. And some of them decided to venture off again. One of those people was this girl.
The riot police had already told them to leave due to fire alarm, and they told them again, when they were at this door, to leave. Someone said something to one of the police, and the police nodded and turned their backs on these people at this door.
The rest of what happened, you see in the video. So she decided that after....
a) breaking the doors down to the building itself
b) entering the building
c) going all over the place in the building, into people's offices without permission
d) being told to leave when a fire alarm was going off, to go to yet another door, instead
e) seeing the door barricaded
...that it was a good idea to climb through the window right next to said barricaded door.
And she didn't see the guy on her left? His gun was up the entire time.
She had all of those chances NOT to do what she did.
I can't side with anyone who says it wasn't justified.
This is no different than someone on the street who will not follow an order to get your hands out of your pockets, to put the gun down, to turn around, to stop running, whatever - it is absolutely no different. I don't care if she was a white veteran Trump supporting girl, it is no different. Don't by hypocrites.
The cops do not know that you don't have a weapon. They don't know, they don't know, they don't know. Stop acting stupid.
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