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Old 01-21-2021, 01:24 PM
 
Location: Chicago, IL
9,701 posts, read 5,085,834 times
Reputation: 4270

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Just going off your logic for why you're opposed to both, you can't have it both ways.

You want to kick out illegal immigrants so that Americans can replace them and get paid better wages in the process...

But you're also opposed to increasing the cost of labor b/c that's going to accelerate the push to automate jobs...

So if replacing illegal immigrants w/ American workers ends up increasing the cost of labor... what exactly are you expecting employers to do about it?
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Old 01-21-2021, 01:54 PM
 
Location: Nashville, TN -
9,588 posts, read 5,800,673 times
Reputation: 11115
You know, the issue of illegal immigration isn't one that only conservatives care about.

I'm a liberal (and a legal immigrant, now a citizen), and I, too, want mass illegal immigration stopped. I add the term "mass" to that sentence, because I don't think we can ever stop it completely. There are just too many people hell-bent on entering illegally and too few people and other resources to put an end to it.

Yes, conservatives speak with forked tongue about this, but so do liberals: they want to allow people to illegally enter and remain in the country because they (rightfully) care about how the US treats people, and because they feel illegal immigrants are entitled to a better life.

Yet, 11 million+ illegal immigrants, with tens of thousands of others attempting to coming every month, absolutely DO suppress wages, which then affects the standards of living of many Americans.

Plus, as long as mass illegal immigration occurs, the US will never have universal healthcare, which every other advanced country DOES have. But what every other advanced country doesn't have is a continuous, uncontrollable stream of people illegally crossing their borders.

So, liberals can't have it both ways, either: you can either continue to allow hundreds of thousands of people to enter and staying the US, or we can (maybe) have nice things like universal healthcare. You can't have it both ways. No country can.

If the pandemic had done nothing else, it has shown the world that the US healthcare system allows too many decent, hardworking, tax-paying, law-abiding citizens to fall through the cracks and either be denied access to care or face financial ruin.
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Old 01-21-2021, 02:54 PM
 
Location: North Seattle
601 posts, read 288,149 times
Reputation: 965
Quote:
Originally Posted by EddieB.Good View Post
Just going off your logic for why you're opposed to both, you can't have it both ways.

You want to kick out illegal immigrants so that Americans can replace them and get paid better wages in the process...

But you're also opposed to increasing the cost of labor b/c that's going to accelerate the push to automate jobs...

So if replacing illegal immigrants w/ American workers ends up increasing the cost of labor... what exactly are you expecting employers to do about it?
This is so ignorant I barely know where to start. I want wages for lower-class workers to rise. Minimum wage fails to accomplish that and has inflationary effects. Illegal immigration, on the other hand, clearly makes wages lower which is the whole reason it exists.

Hopefully you're not old enough to vote.
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Old 01-21-2021, 03:02 PM
 
13,507 posts, read 16,971,242 times
Reputation: 9688
Quote:
Originally Posted by newdixiegirl View Post
You know, the issue of illegal immigration isn't one that only conservatives care about.

I'm a liberal (and a legal immigrant, now a citizen), and I, too, want mass illegal immigration stopped. I add the term "mass" to that sentence, because I don't think we can ever stop it completely. There are just too many people hell-bent on entering illegally and too few people and other resources to put an end to it.

Yes, conservatives speak with forked tongue about this, but so do liberals: they want to allow people to illegally enter and remain in the country because they (rightfully) care about how the US treats people, and because they feel illegal immigrants are entitled to a better life.

Yet, 11 million+ illegal immigrants, with tens of thousands of others attempting to coming every month, absolutely DO suppress wages, which then affects the standards of living of many Americans.

Plus, as long as mass illegal immigration occurs, the US will never have universal healthcare, which every other advanced country DOES have. But what every other advanced country doesn't have is a continuous, uncontrollable stream of people illegally crossing their borders.

So, liberals can't have it both ways, either: you can either continue to allow hundreds of thousands of people to enter and staying the US, or we can (maybe) have nice things like universal healthcare. You can't have it both ways. No country can.

If the pandemic had done nothing else, it has shown the world that the US healthcare system allows too many decent, hardworking, tax-paying, law-abiding citizens to fall through the cracks and either be denied access to care or face financial ruin.
Wow, I found another person on here who thinks like me. I too think we should have universal health care...I too know it can't happen without controlling the number of poor people who can flood into the country.

You have to understand that the basic tenet of many of our liberal friends is that the US is the "bad guy", responsible for all the poverty in central America where the majority of illegal immigrants come from, and therefore it is our moral obligation to allow everyone here who wants to enter to do just that. And they should be given full access to all services provided citizen. Of course there's never any realistic plan on how to pay for all this, but that's what their belief is.
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Old 01-21-2021, 03:05 PM
 
Location: My beloved Bluegrass
20,103 posts, read 16,048,792 times
Reputation: 28275
Quote:
Originally Posted by EddieB.Good View Post
Just going off your logic for why you're opposed to both, you can't have it both ways.

You want to kick out illegal immigrants so that Americans can replace them and get paid better wages in the process...

But you're also opposed to increasing the cost of labor b/c that's going to accelerate the push to automate jobs...

So if replacing illegal immigrants w/ American workers ends up increasing the cost of labor... what exactly are you expecting employers to do about it?
All immigration unnaturally deflates wages, just ask any tech person who has lost their job to an H-2b hire. The mantra that Americans aren’t willing to do certain jobs is simply untrue, the truth is Americans aren’t willing to do those jobs for the low wage they are being offered. There is a reason that America’s greatest middle class growth occurred during a time period when we had our most stringent immigration laws and enforcement. Immigration, particularly unchecked illegal immigration, is a bonanza for the more affluent members of our society, it is devastating to America’s most economically vulnerable citizens, in particular black males.

Oh, and that risen minimum wage definitely motivates more under-the-table hiring.

Increased minimum wage + increased illegal immigration tolerance = higher African-American unemployment rates.
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When I post in bold red that is moderator action and, per the TOS, can only be discussed through Direct Message.Moderator - Diabetes and Kentucky (including Lexington & Louisville)
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Old 01-21-2021, 06:04 PM
bu2
 
23,886 posts, read 14,684,834 times
Reputation: 12696
Quote:
Originally Posted by EddieB.Good View Post
Just going off your logic for why you're opposed to both, you can't have it both ways.

You want to kick out illegal immigrants so that Americans can replace them and get paid better wages in the process...

But you're also opposed to increasing the cost of labor b/c that's going to accelerate the push to automate jobs...

So if replacing illegal immigrants w/ American workers ends up increasing the cost of labor... what exactly are you expecting employers to do about it?
You don't comprehend at all.

If employers need to pay higher because of a lower supply of labor, that is a good thing. An artificially high wage that creates unemployment is a bad thing.

Democrats do not understand economics.
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Old 01-21-2021, 06:09 PM
 
Location: Texas
316 posts, read 154,829 times
Reputation: 733
Theres a difference between the market setting wages and the government. Conservatives support one and generally dont support the other.
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Old 01-21-2021, 06:44 PM
 
62,597 posts, read 28,779,031 times
Reputation: 18427
Many blue-collared jobs can't be automated, duh. Fewer people in the work force means higher wages. The more people in the work force means lower wages.

I expect the employers to pay a fair wage to Americans and not break the law by hiring illegal aliens. If they can't stay afloat without breaking the law then they need to go out of business. They just pass the social costs of their illegal workers on to the taxpayer anyway.
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Old 01-21-2021, 06:46 PM
 
507 posts, read 186,336 times
Reputation: 298
There is a reason you never see white americans working the fields, they would never do such hard work for such low wages and no benefits
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Old 01-21-2021, 06:47 PM
 
507 posts, read 186,336 times
Reputation: 298
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldglory View Post
Many blue-collared jobs can't be automated, duh. Fewer people in the work force means higher wages. The more people in the work force means lower wages.

I expect the employers to pay a fair wage to Americans and not break the law by hiring illegal aliens. If they can't stay afloat without breaking the law then they need to go out of business. They just pass the social costs of their illegal workers on to the taxpayer anyway.
Say good bye to the american agro industry.
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