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I SAID people are being vaccinated now, millions of them, and they are NOT in any study!!
However, you quoted me when I posted something that had nothing to do with your response.
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Originally Posted by swilliamsny
There is really no way of knowing. My nephew was part of a vaccine trial. The follow-up was a phone call from, basically, a telemarketer with a list of questions about specific symptoms: "did the participant experience any vomiting?", "did the participant develop a fever?", etc.
My sister tried to explain that her 20-month-old had stopped walking and babbling, and had gone back to crawling/scooting and cried a lot. The person on the other end of the phone kept telling her "that's not on my list", and told her to report it to VAERS.
The problem with VAERS, as a source, is that it's self-reporting. While many of the complaints are valid and may indeed be due to the vaccine, there's no way to tell. So we get 'professionals' and 'experts' who deny the entirety of those claims and say they are invalid. Given how difficult it is to prove an injury was due to a vaccine, I'm positive the serious effects are underreported. At the same time, I don't think those serious effects are widespread. There would be a point when self-reporting couldn't be to blame.
There is now a mountain of evidence that says the vaccine was not responsible for your nephew's regression.
No, the "'professionals' and 'experts'" do not deny "the entirety of those claims and say they are invalid". Those reports are used to discover conditions that may be caused by a vaccine. Additional studies are then done. What they found was that events like the one you describe are no more likely to happen after getting a vaccine than they are after not getting a vaccine.
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Originally Posted by Good4Nothin
I am sure the covid vaccines will be mandated, even though they can't be mandated by the central government. States can mandate them, and schools, businesses, airlines, etc. Normal life will be impossible for anyone who is afraid to get these experimental mRNA and DNA vaccines.
There will be vaccines made with more traditional methods. Anyone who does not want one made with new technology can get one of those as they become available.
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Vaccines are definitely overused. Giving a tiny newborn the hepatitis B vaccine makes no sense. It is only transmitted by sex or shared needles. I'm sure the drug industry has a say in what vaccines are required.
Hepatitis B is bloodborne. It can be acquired by any contact with infected blood.
Giving the dose at birth is not done to prevent the newborn from getting hepatitis B, it is to protect him from exposure later on. Half the time when a child catches the disease the source is never identified. It may have been a family member or friend who does not know he has it. Children who are infected are at greater risk to be chronically infected and develop liver cancer.
The committee that makes decisions about which vaccines are recommended contains no representatives from industry. It does not dictate mandates. That is done at the state level as far as children are concerned.
Because some vaccines have been helpful, such as smallpox and polio, we now have the idea that vaccines are healthy and the more vaccines the better. But they all have possible side effects -- we really don't know how many cases of juvenile diabetes, autoimmune and neurological disorders, might be related to the overuse of vaccines.
Every vaccine on the US schedules for children and adults has been shown to be safer than getting the disease it prevents. Studies have shown no increased risk of diabetes, autoimmune disorders, and neurological disorders in vaccinated groups.
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Our society is in love with vaccines (well maybe half are), so they have no fear of a vaccine which is really gene therapy. And no one has any idea what the longterm effects of being repeatedly vaccinated with them might be. If the nanoparticles enter the brain, they might cause neurological diseases in some people. We really DO NOT KNOW.
Yes, we have to wait to know what long term effects might be.
The mRNA vaccines are not "gene therapy". They cannot alter DNA. The lipids in the nanoparticle are removed when the nanoparticle attaches to the target muscle cell, releasing the mRNA. Once the mRNA is transcribed on the ribosome it is rapidly destroyed. It cannot get into the nucleus where the DNA is located.
There is currently active research on nanoparticles and the brain, primarily as carriers for drugs to treat malignant brain tumors. There are people who DO KNOW.
In addition, mRNA vaccines are small doses, they are injected into muscle, not directly into blood vessels, and the amount reaching the brain would be extraordinarily tiny.
In addition, mRNA vaccines are small doses, they are injected into muscle, not directly into blood vessels, and the amount reaching the brain would be extraordinarily tiny.
You don't know that. Depending on exactly where the needle enters the muscle, it can certainly have access to blood vessels. And from there, no one knows what organs it might be able to enter. It depends on how lucky the vaccine recipient is.
The mRNA vaccines are not "gene therapy". They cannot alter DNA. The lipids in the nanoparticle are removed when the nanoparticle attaches to the target muscle cell, releasing the mRNA. Once the mRNA is transcribed on the ribosome it is rapidly destroyed. It cannot get into the nucleus where the DNA is located.
I was talking about the mRNA vaccines AND the DNA vaccines! The AstraZeneca enters the nucleus and uses genetically engineered DNA to cause the cell to make the spike proteins.
Yes, we have to wait to know what long term effects might be.
Hmmm. We have to wait. Wasn't that MY WHOLE POINT? The public is being told these new vaccines are SAFE, don't worry. But NO ONE KNOWS if they are safe or not, longterm. Get it? NO ONE KNOWS.
You don't know that. Depending on exactly where the needle enters the muscle, it can certainly have access to blood vessels. And from there, no one knows what organs it might be able to enter. It depends on how lucky the vaccine recipient is.
The amount of mRNA in a vaccine is still tiny.
Where the mRNA goes (yes, there are those that know; please stop projecting your own lack of information on the people who work with this vaccine technology):
I was talking about the mRNA vaccines AND the DNA vaccines! The AstraZeneca enters the nucleus and uses genetically engineered DNA to cause the cell to make the spike proteins.
You are shifting the goalposts. The post that initiated our conversation was about mRNA vaccines.
As far as DNA is concerned, altering DNA is not easy, even when it would be desirable, as in treating certain genetic diseases.
Hmmm. We have to wait. Wasn't that MY WHOLE POINT? The public is being told these new vaccines are SAFE, don't worry. But NO ONE KNOWS if they are safe or not, longterm. Get it? NO ONE KNOWS.
The short term evidence shows no reason to be concerned that long term adverse effects will ever exceed the adverse effects of COVID-19.
We do not have the luxury of waiting five, ten, or twenty years to look at long term effects. People are dying from COVID-19 now.
From Harvard educated mRNA vaccine expert Dr. Ulm's comment in there:
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The nightmare scenario would be if e.g. the mRNA vaccines’ lipid nanoparticles are, indeed, crossing the BBB and getting endocytosed into critical glial cells, like oligodendrocytes, or even worse, into neurons themselves in the brain and spinal cord, putting a bullseye on these critical cells for cytotoxic CD8 lymphocytes. If so, we’d be setting the stage for a rash of multiple sclerosis and ALS-type clinical scenarios down the road with multiple boosters. My old medical colleagues have been getting especially concerned about this possibility, and I think this may be behind the recent sharp plunge in willingness among more and more healthcare workers to take the mRNA vaccines.
The short term evidence shows no reason to be concerned that long term adverse effects will ever exceed the adverse effects of COVID-19.
We do not have the luxury of waiting five, ten, or twenty years to look at long term effects. People are dying from COVID-19 now.
WHAT?? The short term evidence shows no reason to be concerned about long term problems?? WHAT?? The short term evidence says NOTHING about possible long term damage.
And MOST people are NOT dying of COVID-19!
And furthermore -- long term damage won't be connected with the vaccine. The drug companies aren't liable, and they could deny it even if they were.
Where the mRNA goes (yes, there are those that know; please stop projecting your own lack of information on the people who work with this vaccine technology):
I am sure I have read as much or more about this as you. No need for you to educate me. The difference is that all you bother to read is what the drug industry wants everyone to believe.
There are experts who say that no one knows yet exactly where the mRNA will go or what it will do in various organs. Especially the brain.
"Researchers have studied the mechanisms by which the novel coronavirus can reach the brains of patients with COVID-19. The results show that SARS-CoV-2 enters the brain via nerve cells in the olfactory mucosa."
That means that far more spike protein would be produced in the brain after infection (large numbers of viral prarticles) than vaccination.
He also says Moderna has not provided information on distribution of the vaccine to various organs. It has, in animal studies. Kind of hard to do it in living humans, you know. These studies have been going on for about a decade.
"Given this innovative vaccine platform, we examined the biodistribution of the mRNA vaccines for both routes of administration. Male CD-1 mice received 6 μg formulated H10 mRNA either IM or ID. Following IM administration, the maximum concentration (Cmax) of the injection site muscle was 5,680 ng/mL, and the level declined with an estimated t1/2 of 18.8 hr (Table 1). Proximal lymph nodes had the second highest concentration at 2,120 ng/mL (tmax of 8 hr with a relatively long t1/2 of 25.4 hr), suggesting that H10 mRNA distributes from the injection site to systemic circulation through the lymphatic system. The spleen and liver had a mean Cmax of 86.9 ng/mL (area under the curve [AUC]0–264 of 2,270 ng.hr/mL) and 47.2 ng/mL (AUC0–264 of 276 ng.hr/mL), respectively. In the remaining tissues and plasma, H10 mRNA was found at 100- to 1,000-fold lower levels."
Therefore, most was found in the muscle and nearby lymph nodes. So little was found in brain that they could not determine the half life there.
This study in monkeys shows an mRNA vaccine in the injection site and nearby lymph nodes.
WHAT?? The short term evidence shows no reason to be concerned about long term problems?? WHAT?? The short term evidence says NOTHING about possible long term damage.
And MOST people are NOT dying of COVID-19!
And furthermore -- long term damage won't be connected with the vaccine. The drug companies aren't liable, and they could deny it even if they were.
A lot of people are dying from COVID-19 and many survivors are not getting well months after the initial infection. There are some who show evidence of scarring in the lungs and heart that will be permanent.
You know, research on mRNA vaccines did not just start in March, 2020. It goes back about a decade and includes clinical studies on on vaccines for other viruses, including flu and rabies.
Your fallback position is always a conspiracy theory.
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Originally Posted by Good4Nothin
I am sure I have read as much or more about this as you. No need for you to educate me. The difference is that all you bother to read is what the drug industry wants everyone to believe.
There are experts who say that no one knows yet exactly where the mRNA will go or what it will do in various organs. Especially the brain.
I sincerely doubt that you have read more than I have, since you obviously are not aware of the pre-existing research on mRNA vaccines.
See the references above. The ignorance is not with the scientists researching mRNA vaccines. They do know where it will go and what it does.
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