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This is where I stand. Anyone who believes that one race is superior or inferior to another, said person isn't worth talking to. Why would I want dialogue with a racist?
Anyone who has racial hatred/resentment in their hearts, why bother?
Most people in America have been over and done with discriminating against or hating someone because of their race. That is old hat.
The issue of today is expecting equal socioeconomic outcomes among all the races. That is the elephant in the room.
If superior/inferior in the sense of the peculiar "white supremacists" such as those interviewed by Carol Swain, who believe that every nonwhite person is a "mud people" person simply because of being nonwhite (these whites would take an educated, ignorant, illiterate white person over an Ivy League graduate/genius-level composer/writer/engineer/mathematician who is black or Asian), then I agree with you completely.
But there are at least some group differences. For example, the NBA is overwhelmingly black in its membership. It's been nearly 40 years or so since a nationally televised NBA match had 10 white players on the court.
Now, countries like South Korea and Brazil have their own professional basketball leagues. The tallest and most physically capable South Korean men who play basketball well to be pros make it. Yet, how many of those make it the NBA?
Conversely, in places as distinct as South Korea and countries in South America, black American professional basketball players compete. Are they rejects from the NBA? Not necessarily. But if they're not good enough for the NBA, they're nonetheless good enough to compete in these leagues.
The same happens in baseball. White American baseball players play in South Korea. Brazilian soccer players past their prime play in China.
The NBA however wants the best of the best and most of the time that's black players. Those guys are physically supergifted and endowed with out of this world athleticism. In that sense they are my superiors, and unquestionably so.
But in writing, for example - and I consider myself just a halfway decent writer - are they my superiors or inferiors? I'd gather than I can probably write better than most of them. In this sense, I'm the superior of an NBA player.
So we need to define "superior/inferior."
The NBA is your example? Lol
Your writing is good enough for me to understand that.
Most people in America have been over and done with discriminating against or hating someone because of their race. That is old hat.
The issue of today is expecting equal socioeconomic outcomes among all the races. That is the elephant in the room.
Actually it's even worse than that. The left and non-white interest groups (the only kind allowed) basically expect equal or better socioeconomic outcomes than the white median for everyone non-white. That Asians have better average outcomes than white is considered fine. It's just not fine that whites have better outcomes than anyone else.
Decades of efforts to abridge gaps between Asian and black students in U.S. public schools have involved billions of dollars in investment and the gaps persist. If standardized exams are racist against blacks because they use a traditionally white culture, why do Asians do just as well if not better than whites in these exams given there are profound differences between white culture and the cultures of these Asian students' ancestral homelands? And why do so many of the Asian students who excel at these exams happen to have been born in Asian countries who happened to move here with their parents as immigrants?
If racism is why blacks and Hispanics lag behind Asians, why is that racism keeping whites below Asians?
I get that point. I have to wonder if it is more cultural in nature. Asians seem to value and judge one another based on education more. This emphasis and competition creates a desire to excel.
One very interesting thing the elderly black man from my town brought up in the video I mentioned was the expectations of students in his day for a good education versus what he sees now. He said he saw less literacy issues with graduates of a segregated two room school house (with little funding) than what he sees today.
He specifically mentioned the importance back then of being passed to the 7th grade. It was a big deal and considered a turning point. If you couldn't cut it you went back to 6th. He said what you were required to know to pass to 7th rivals what is required to graduate HS today.
Peer pressure and the ability to openly criticize others was a huge factor back then too. It was perceived as a good thing. You were made fun of if you had to go back so there were social pressures to excel. That's a lot of what we are lacking today.
The whole "participation trophy" mindset is hurting society. Oh, I get it as I agree with fairness too, but like most ideas that start out from good intentions, it's been taken too far. Look at the unintended consequences. We are more worried about "feelings" today than results. That change in emphasis is tearing down a society's ability to keep people in check and on the right path in life.
But you can do all of these things and still be discriminated against or targeted.
That’s the part of the discussion you’re not willing to hear. And the other part is not true because there are high performing inner city majority black schools.
So according to you I guess poor whites value education. Great.
well, an easy point to make is - do those things, and while you do, we will work on the discrimination side. Because those who are equal to others, by their actions and values, should be treated equally.
the point is - value education. And value humans. And you will be valued.
No one example can explain away anything. My 9 year old knows that.
Well the NBA and NFL etc are massively huge examples and pretty much represents society wide competition not too different from elite college admission. To say race and ethnicity is simply a matter of skin tone and phenotype appearance is a childish thought.
What's the point of talking about this book that is not even out until mid June ?
And we have an highly illogical premise here
The above description says:
America’s most precious ideal is what used to be known as the American Creed: People are not to be judged by where they came from, what social class they come from, or by race, color, or creed. They must be judged as individuals. The prevailing Progressive ideology repudiates that ideal, demanding instead that the state should judge people by their race, social origins, religion, sex, and sexual orientation.
and having said this also says this
American whites, blacks, Hispanics, and Asians have different violent crime rates and different means and distributions of cognitive ability.
So right here in the description of the book we contradiction and doublespeak, he say people must be judged as individuals and says " The prevailing Progressive ideology repudiates that ideal, demanding instead that the state should judge people by their race"
and he does the exact same thing
It isn't.
The progressive ideology of our day emphasizes identity to an extreme extent. It is cultural Marxism.
The Marxism of the past was about a struggle between the capitalists and the proletariat; today's cultural Marxism is about the oppressors and the oppressed, and white people are never the oppressed. Blacks, browns, natives, women, transgender people, immigrants (the illegal ones who are overwhelmingly black and brown; sons and daughters of impoverished Vietnamese boat people who got to Harvard after arriving in America without speaking a word of English are not seen as "oppressed" but rather as "white adjacent" - this is yet another example of the radical left's savaging of vocabulary so language fits its ideology and narratives).
There are people pushing for laws for a certain number of people on a company's board of directors to be minorities. There are people on the left who blast whites, blast America, blasted President Trump for "white supremacy" and invoked Martin Luther King Jr. who applauded Joe Biden being challenged on a live TV debate about whether he'd pick a VP who was nonwhite and he said yes.
A presidential candidate agreed, on live TV, that he'd pick someone based on identity, not on merit.
This is what Murray is alluding to and he is surgically precise in his accuracy.
However, when Murray says, "American whites, blacks, Hispanics, and Asians have different violent crime rates and different means and distributions of cognitive ability, he is not being in any way, shape, or form, guilty of self-contradiction. He is only speaking the truth.
IQ tests have shown disparate results race vs. race over many years. Asians and whites outdo blacks and Hispanics, on average, in both IQ exams in standardized exams, and in academic performance. And, there are different rates of violent crime - the FBI's annual Crime in the United States report, which is released every autumn, shows this clearly. Have you read it? If not, I suggest you do. You will get dozens of excel spreadsheets for each annual report, but look at those focusing on race. Asians commit violent crimes at rates FAR LOWER than those of Hispanics and blacks.
It is wrong to pick people for a job based on that person's gender or race, but it is not contradictory to hold onto that position while acknowledging reality: some races in the U.S., as people groups, commit crimes less often than others while doing far better academically than others.
To deny this is to deny reality. Thankfully, Murray has never been prone to doing so.
I get that point. I have to wonder if it is more cultural in nature. Asians seem to value and judge one another based on education more. This emphasis and competition creates a desire to excel.
One very interesting thing the elderly black man from my town brought up in the video I mentioned was the expectations of students in his day for a good education versus what he sees now. He said he saw less literacy issues with graduates of a segregated two room school house (with little funding) than what he sees today.
He specifically mentioned the importance back then of being passed to the 7th grade. It was a big deal and considered a turning point. If you couldn't cut it you went back to 6th. He said what you were required to know to pass to 7th rivals what is required to graduate HS today.
Peer pressure and the ability to openly criticize others was a huge factor back then too. It was perceived as a good thing. You were made fun of if you had to go back so there were social pressures to excel. That's a lot of what we are lacking today.
The whole "participation trophy" mindset is hurting society. Oh, I get it as I agree with fairness too, but like most ideas that start out from good intentions, it's been taken too far. Look at the unintended consequences. We are more worried about "feelings" today than results. That change in emphasis is tearing down a society's ability to keep people in check and on the right path in life.
Then if culture and peer pressure (say, among teenagers) is what keeps blacks and Hispanics from the academic, financial, and professional success Asians and whites achieve as groups, then why does the charge of racism exist?
As others (including some who are black themselves) have pointed out in this thread and on C-D, there are black immigrants from Africa and the Caribbean who have cultural backgrounds which are noticeably different from that of many black Americans. They come here generally with their family units intact, value education, quietly study and apply themselves, and make their way up on the socioeconomic ladder. This has been the case to the extent there has been strife (not of the violent kind, but some tension, rather) between these black immigrant groups and black Americans.
Ethnically, racially - these blacks from the Caribbean and Africa are no less African than black Americans. Why does the racism that the left claim holds black Americans down appears to magically lose its power when it comes to black immigrants from the Caribbean and from Africa?
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