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Old 05-08-2008, 11:24 AM
 
Location: Bike to Surf!
3,078 posts, read 11,062,838 times
Reputation: 3023

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Whew. Sanity makes a comeback. That was a pretty freaky first two pages, I must say.

 
Old 05-08-2008, 11:31 AM
 
Location: Raleigh, NC
9,059 posts, read 12,969,306 times
Reputation: 1401
Quote:
Originally Posted by Magnulus View Post
There is no evidence to substantiate the abiotic theory of oil. Maybe you like it because you also think the Earth is only 6,000 years old. That doesn't make it so. And that shouldn't be a basis for public policy.

As I fear, and others like James Kunstler have warned, as oil and gas prices go higher, more and more Americans wil turn to reactionary politics and shortsighted solutions. This is only the beginning.
And, as history has shown time and time again, when things seem dire, one man rises to the occassion with his silver tongue and offers their solutions to the peoples' problems...

 
Old 05-08-2008, 11:32 AM
 
Location: SE Alaska
959 posts, read 2,360,851 times
Reputation: 460
Quote:
Originally Posted by ViewFromThePeak View Post
There are those who even believe the Caribou would enjoy the pipeline due and would hang out near it because of its warmth, even mating near it I'm serious.

Most of this pro-drilling banter is pure emotional and subjective reasoning though. If you really want to address high gas prices, perhaps a march in front of the Federal Reserve building might be prudent before gas goes to $10/gal?

Maybe someone can connect the dots between high oil/gas prices and the Fed buying up the junk mortgage and student debt securities because no one else wants to touch them with a ten foot pole?

If you think gas prices are high now, wait until the Fed rescues Fannie and Freddie .
Yup..it's our big, bad government at work again; trying hard to ruin everyone's lives!
I'm pro-drilling because we need more oil and I'd rather America had it than anyplace else! Yup--guilty of bias, I am. Also, the current pipleine has had almost no negative effect on the natural resources (cumulatively--which is what counts). Most scientists agree on this. The way in which we construct things like this now is almost so environmentally friendly that it gets economically prohibitive real quick. However...I'd rather see it that way than not be able to find a caribou anywhere. I love hunting them. Seriously, I'm not without a heart; I love wildlife and I realize it has more than just meat value.
 
Old 05-08-2008, 11:42 AM
 
Location: um....guess
10,503 posts, read 15,563,744 times
Reputation: 1836
Quote:
Originally Posted by jrod2828 View Post
Also, I would say the world can support 10 billion people or more. Take a drive out of your city anywhere in the country. Look at all the open spaces and forests and lakes. As long as we can get rid of radical Islam, the world can peacefully flourish with many many more people.
Huh?? Yes, let's take away every bit of fresh air, blade of grass, beautiful tree or lake just so we can sit our fat asses in our concrete McMansions & idle away the days playing video games, watching tv & inhaling those wasteful buffets that americans love to devour. This country is filled w/people who just take & take & never give back, selfish self-righteous, egotistical, closed-minded wastes of space.
 
Old 05-08-2008, 11:47 AM
 
Location: um....guess
10,503 posts, read 15,563,744 times
Reputation: 1836
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tricky D View Post
Ain't it funny that Americans generally believe that only the radical Islam is a threat?
Is it because they have lotsa oil?
If they had nuclear WMD they would just be like America but be Islamic instead of Christian.

Americans often complain about the Islamic sharia and conveniently forget how influential their Christian right-wing is.
America a nation where the church and state are divided?
I don’t think so; especially since the so called 'religious' issues gay rights and abortion aren’t religious items at all.
And yet the American Christians want to enforce these social issues by law (which in the end makes it political).

I guess that because Christians believe that God gave the Earth to them to rule over it, they live under the impression that they can do with it as they please.
I also guess that most people still haven’t learned that needs should surpass plain wants. We need a clean earth to survive so it would be in humanities best interest to ignore the people who believe that they need oil so they can do the things they want instead of things they need to do.
Oh god, thank you thank you thank you!!!! I was beginning to think I was in the Twilight Zone!
 
Old 05-08-2008, 11:54 AM
 
7,331 posts, read 15,383,950 times
Reputation: 3800
We can do better than oil. Oil isn't evil, but if we can do without it, shouldn't we? It's dirty to collect, dirty to burn, and doesn't renew.

We can do better! All it takes is the will to do so.
 
Old 05-08-2008, 12:00 PM
 
Location: SE Alaska
959 posts, read 2,360,851 times
Reputation: 460
Quote:
Originally Posted by CarolinaBredChicagoan View Post
We can do better than oil. Oil isn't evil, but if we can do without it, shouldn't we? It's dirty to collect, dirty to burn, and doesn't renew.

We can do better! All it takes is the will to do so.
Yeah...we could burn wood part of the time. Oops...never mind. While it meets all of your criteria, the environmentalists chain themselves to trees so it's kinda hard to cut 'em down. We can't touch a saw to a tree without doing an EIS...a document that usually costs a minimum of a million dollars to create...again, because of environmental lobby.

Seriously, I agree with you overall. But we still need oil...unless you have an immediate solution.
 
Old 05-08-2008, 12:21 PM
 
7,331 posts, read 15,383,950 times
Reputation: 3800
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alaskagrl View Post
Yeah...we could burn wood part of the time. Oops...never mind. While it meets all of your criteria, the environmentalists chain themselves to trees so it's kinda hard to cut 'em down. We can't touch a saw to a tree without doing an EIS...a document that usually costs a minimum of a million dollars to create...again, because of environmental lobby.

Seriously, I agree with you overall. But we still need oil...unless you have an immediate solution.
Why does a solution have to be immediate?

Look, if we're going to move beyond oil, it'll clearly have to be business that drives us there. That means money. That means the transition will be painful. However, if we do more to encourage alternative energies (end oil and ethanol subsidies and spend more on solar, wind, tidal, geothermal, etc) while ending subsidies that keep the balance off-kilter, we can move beyond fossil fuels. All that requires is a TRULY free market.
 
Old 05-08-2008, 12:26 PM
 
Location: SE Alaska
959 posts, read 2,360,851 times
Reputation: 460
Quote:
Originally Posted by CarolinaBredChicagoan View Post
Why does a solution have to be immediate?

Look, if we're going to move beyond oil, it'll clearly have to be business that drives us there. That means money. That means the transition will be painful. However, if we do more to encourage alternative energies (end oil and ethanol subsidies and spend more on solar, wind, tidal, geothermal, etc) while ending subsidies that keep the balance off-kilter, we can move beyond fossil fuels. All that requires is a TRULY free market.
I agree with your basic premise. I believe that all the energy types you mentioned should be heavily invested in and developed, using government resources and scientists as well as private industry money. However, in the interim, if we have to pay out the nose for gas, it's going to delay a lot of those advances. The more money we have to pay for gas, the less we're going to have to invest. This is true from the individual taxpayer right up to the government. So--getting to more oil, which would help drive costs down, really is the solution at this point in time.
 
Old 05-08-2008, 12:29 PM
 
7,331 posts, read 15,383,950 times
Reputation: 3800
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alaskagrl View Post
I agree with your basic premise. I believe that all the energy types you mentioned should be heavily invested in and developed, using government resources and scientists as well as private industry money. However, in the interim, if we have to pay out the nose for gas, it's going to delay a lot of those advances. The more money we have to pay for gas, the less we're going to have to invest. This is true from the individual taxpayer right up to the government. So--getting to more oil, which would help drive costs down, really is the solution at this point in time.
And we'll have to do this again in a couple of years after we blow through that oil, too.
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