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View Poll Results: Will we ever see impeachment legitimately used to remove a sitting president?
Yes 1 20.00%
No 3 60.00%
Don't Care 0 0%
Depends on what "legitimately" means 1 20.00%
Voters: 5. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 02-14-2021, 01:14 PM
 
Location: Chicago Area
12,687 posts, read 6,732,188 times
Reputation: 6593

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Presidential impeachment has never yet been used as the founders intended, and it's because of tribalism and politics.
  • Andrew Johnson was impeached because he broke the ridiculous law that Congress specifically passed to try to trap him. The law made it a criminal offense for the President to fire a member his cabinet without Senate approval. The law stayed on the books mostly as an oversight for 20 years before being repealed in 1887.
  • Bill Clinton was tricked into a perjury trap by the Republicans. Sure he broke the law, but the fact that he was tricked into doing so is shady as hell and destroys the legitimacy of the whole thing.
  • In 2019 the Democrats articles of impeachment included zero crimes or misdemeanors, and was the first "we're impeaching you because we hate you" instance.
  • In 2021, the charge would have never gotten anywhere in an actual court. Inciting a riot or insurrection has a lot of judicial precedent and it's very hard to get a conviction. "Might have kinda sorta maybe hinted at incitement." would have been laughed out of any real court. You have to be really, really, really blatant to move out of 1st Amendment protection.
Just look at the votes in every instance.

Andrew Johnson:
  • Guilty: 35 Republicans, 0 Democrats
  • Not Guilty: 10 Repbulicans, 9 Democrats
Bill Clinton:
  • Article One:
  • Guilty: 45 Republicans, 0 Democrats
  • Not Guilty: 5 Republicans, 45 Republicans
  • Article Two:
  • Guilty: 50 Republicans, 0 Democrats
  • Not Guilty: 5 Republicans, 45 Democrats
Donald Trump I:
  • Guilty: 1 Republican, 45 Democrats, 2 Independents
  • Not Guilty: 52 Republicans
Donald Trump II:
  • Guilty: 7 Republicans, 48 Democrats, 2 Independents
  • Not Guilty: 0 Democrats, 43 Republicans
When the vote skews massively down party lines, odds are the whole thing is a sham.
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Old 02-14-2021, 03:20 PM
 
Location: The High Desert
16,075 posts, read 10,735,467 times
Reputation: 31452
I hope the occasion never comes up.

The comment “...never gotten anywhere in an actual court” is entirely irrelevant in a senate impeachment trial. In the most recent example, the jury members were also witnesses to the events. Some played a part. They were personally and politically invested in the final outcome— unlike any actual court. The “acquitted” perpetrator in chief will possibly face criminal charges and for an abundance of charges in multiple jurisdictions. Civil cases will pile up as well. His acquittal was a political sham as there is no doubt about his role in the insurrection. But impeachment’s are political trials with political consequences. Trump’s acquittal has the effect of changing nothing but the trial and the process has defined him as a seditious and vile political being worthy of undying and universal contempt. Even those voting for acquittal spoke against him and blamed him for the events of January 6th and the anti-constitutional campaign that he pursued in the previous weeks and months.
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Old 02-14-2021, 03:54 PM
 
Location: King County, WA
15,823 posts, read 6,534,658 times
Reputation: 13324
How would you improve the process of making Presidents accountable for their sundry high crimes and misdemeanors? Whatever you come up with, the political parties are just going to game for their advantage.
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