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Yes, that is correct: Ultra-liberal, crowded, multi-cultural Paris, France - population 2.1 million - has, even in its worst 2 years in the last 4 years, a lower murder rate than conservative, republican North Dakota - with 762,000 spread out in wide-open spaces.
According to conservative propaganda, this should not be possible. But there it is.
Why not compare apples to apples? You know, like murder rates in American cities historically run by democrats?
Baltimore, Newark, Camden, San Fran & Chicago should be a good start.
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[quote=Informed Info;60463463]
Quote:
Originally Posted by James Bond 007
This is a long post, but there is lots of data that needs to be shown to back up my thread title. I'll break it up into a couple seperate posts.
We have been told time and time again by some conservatives on this forum how great places like North Dakota are. Among other reasons, we are told one reason why places like ND are so great is because they have rock-bottom murder rates. This is attributed to their being low-population-density states run by rock-solid conservatives, and that they have very low populations of .... ermmm ... "democrats." And otherwise ... "liberals."
The problem with that thesis is that elsewhere in the developed world, there are cities which represent everything these conservatives loathe whose homicide rates are even lower than North Dakota!
Paris, France, is one such city. It is a large, crowded, multi-cultural, ultra-liberal city. According to conservative rhetoric on this forum, it should be a murderous, destitute and generally miserable place. So let's see if it is!
We'll start with Paris' murder rate. To get the latest data on murder rates in various places in France, go to the following link. It's in French, but I'll explain how to get the data. Or, your browser might have a translator you can use:
The title of the link says 2012 but when you either download the spreadsheet ("Télécharger") or view the table viewer ("Prévisualiser"), the most recent data is for 2020. The spreadsheet actually has all data from 2012-2020. To see data for Paris you have to download the spreadsheet. It is organized according to how police responsibilities in France are organized, which I won't go into. To see 2020 data for Paris, at the bottom of the spreadsheet click on the "Services PN 2020" tab. Each column at the top contains the official number of every French Départment. Départments are administrative regions which are equivalent of somewhere between a county and a state in the US. The Départment code for Paris is 75, and Paris happens to have its own Départment which is coincident with the Paris city limits. The first 3 rows beneath the headers (that is, rows 4-6) contain different kinds of homicides. Thus, to get the # of homicides for Paris, add up all the numbers in the first 3 rows beneath the headers in all of the "75" columns (of which there are a few dozen of).
Doing that gives you 33 murders for 2020.
Repeating those steps for 2019 gives you 47 homicides.
2018 had 46 homicides.
2017 had 33 homicides.
That should be a good recent sample.
The estimated 2018 population of Paris was 2,175,601 (source). Paris' population isn't changing much these days so we can safely use the same figure for the other recent years:
Why not compare apples to apples? You know, like murder rates in American cities historically run by democrats?
Baltimore, Newark, Camden, San Fran & Chicago should be a good start.
Pretty much every "city" is run by Democrats. Even in red states
Why not compare apples to apples? You know, like murder rates in American cities historically run by democrats?
Baltimore, Newark, Camden, San Fran & Chicago should be a good start.
It would appear you do not read this section very often.
But even if I did - so what? The murder rate of Paris, France is lower than the murder rate of North Dakota. And the murder rate of Paris, France is lower than the murder rate of Chicago. It wouldn't change anything about my results.
If you lived in N. Dakota in the winter, cooped up in the house while feet of snow are outside, while your partner will not stop clicking her jaw over and over and over.
Well. Lets just say, I understand. You're still going to prison. But I understand.
I’m probably one of the few on CD who has actually lived in North Dakota before and can give some actual context.
First of all, virtually all of the homicides that occurred in North Dakota when I lived there were committed by Native Americans, and substance abuse was a contributing factor in many of those, not to mention that they are policed separately on their tribal lands. However, some of that does bleed out into non-tribal lands when they leave the reservations to work or shop or whatever.
Since I’ve left, there’s also been a huge change in North Dakota, and that was the oil industry really took off, requiring non-North Dakota workers to be brought in to work there. A lot of these workers are living in sort of a temporary fashion, they don’t have traditional homes, nor is there enough adequate housing anyway.
I don’t care to look it up, but I wonder how many of those murders were committed by Native Americans or out of state people who are just working there to support the oil industry?
It would appear you do not read this section very often.
Quote:
But even if I did - so what? The murder rate of Paris, France is lower than the murder rate of North Dakota. And the murder rate of Paris, France is lower than the murder rate of Chicago. It wouldn't change anything about my results.
Because you are comparing apples and oranges, and you haven't stated your point for doing so to be anything other than a "gotcha" aimed at a poster from ND who obviously gets under your skin.
What does Paris, France have to do with any state in the US?
Compare socialist EU cities to other socialist EU cities.
What's the next comparison you'd like to make? French restaurants in Paris to French restaurants in Guadalajara?
Because you are comparing apples and oranges, and you haven't stated your point for doing so to be anything other than a "gotcha" aimed at a poster from ND who obviously gets under your skin.
What does Paris, France have to do with any state in the US?
Compare socialist EU cities to other socialist EU cities.
What's the next comparison you'd like to make? French restaurants in Paris to French restaurants in Guadalajara?
Well people show their stats to prove a point, right?
Paris is a city in the Western world and North Dakota is also in the Western world.
Close enough for me. Btw we all know what “democratic run” means.
Paris has achieved its enlightened status like any other respectable city has: by pricing the undesirables out.
Not all of Paris. Most cities in the world have wealthier cores. The US and it’s white flight is the outlier.
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